Re: What should the RFL do with regard to the restructure ? : Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:14 pm  

griff1998 wrote:

Do you think promotion with a crowd base of around 1000 will be a Good Thing ?

Yes !!!

The club will generate more income through increased TV money and higher away support and with matches being shown on sky the good people of Sheffield might realise that we have actually got a Rugby League Team !!! whether we would go full time is another question depending on prize money and funding Obviously if we dont go full time we will have a difficult task on our hands hopefully there will be funding in place to insure that promoted teams can be competitive in the superleague. Relegated teams will probably have an inflated salary bill so perhaps the RFL could introduce parachute payments like relegated premiership football teams

Even though we are succesful at Championship level and it is great fun winning Grand Finals I am sure i am not the only fan who has dreams of us playing in the Super League at some point without Promotion there are no dreams and all our best players and staff will move to Superleague sides

Re: What should the RFL do with regard to the restructure ? : Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:35 pm  

FevGrinder wrote:

Griff,

I guess the argument is without the hope of P&R that the 1000 will be 900 the 800 in future years. Hopefully with P&R back in place and a relatively successful team the Eagles could see attendances going in the other direction.

I understand that Sheffield is a Football city, but it still supports an Ice Hockey team with attendances of 3000-3500 in a similar minor sport (like Rugby League) and I don't see why the Eagles couldn't expect to get to this sort of level of support.

For me I'd prefer to see 2 leagues of 12 with 1 up 1 down, can you imagine the draw to the GF if the winners had the chance to get promoted to SL? Though I still believe that the promoted team should be the one top of the pile at the end of the regular season (but can see why we might use the GF winner especially if we end up with an "uneven" set of league fixture which I am guessing is most likely with a 2x12 league structure), though maybe a 1 up 1 down with a play-off system for a second promotion place could work.

As for 2x12 into 3x8 the more I think about it the more I don't like it, issues I see:
- how do you promote season tickets when you don't know if you have 14 or 15 home games
- how do you decide who has 14 and who has 15 home games?
- how as supporters do you manage the fact that going into round 23 of the fixtures for the season you don't know who you are playing (or where) in round 24 (not good for workers on shift patterns
- For clubs that don't own their own grounds how do you book the dates/venues for the last 7 fixtures? Can you imagine the administration headache in the week between round 23 & 24?
- based on the experience in Switzerland the TV companies are only interested in the top league (how do you get TV producers and TV viewers interested in a Sheffield v Fev game on a Saturday night at Owlerton stadium?
- funding across 24 teams is a big problem unless there is a significant increase of sponsorship, whereas with 2x12 with 1 up 1 down you maybe only have to think about the top 14-16 clubs (this for me is the biggest issue)
- what does the middle tier do for play-offs when after the extra 7 games promotion and relegation is already sorted? I still prefer the idea of 8 games for the middle tier and taking the six results through from games against other teams also going into the middle tier, see [url]here[/url])
Am sure Griff can supply more issues here.

Whatever happens we need a structure in place that works for all clubs, but still allows us to have an elite division that can draw in sponsorship. That is it has to be good for the whole game.

Also in all of this don't forget the clubs that will fall outside the top 24 clubs, i.e. the current 9 CC1 clubs plus 6 or 7 from CC (depends if a second French team is introduced into the top 24). The restructure has to work for them also there has to be a way for London Scholars and the like to make their way up the leagues and into SL.
- For me a league of 15/16 teams will not work, so as part of the restructure do we bring in 1 or 2 additional teams at this level and have two leagues of 8?
- Should we go for regional leagues at this level?
- How will funding find its way down to this level?
- How will P&R work between the second tier and these leagues?
- etc.

As much as I’d like to see everything resolved next Friday I just don’t see how all the questions will be answered.

A very perceptive post and one to which I don't have sufficient time to do justice.

I'd just add from the Twelves and Eights point of view ....

- What are we actually playing for ? Who wins $L2 ? Top of the Twelve or top of the Eight ? What are the third Eight playing for ? There's a Grand Final - for what ?

- I just see this as a mindless succession of groups with no outcome or climax. You're in a group of twelve, qualifying for a group of eight, then qualifying for a group of twelve, then eight .... it's endless. The GF in the middle eight is between fourth and fifth. There's no Big Day Out for the leaders.

I don't like it at all.

Re: What should the RFL do with regard to the restructure ? : Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:37 pm  

duggs413 wrote:

Yes !!!

The club will generate more income through increased TV money and higher away support and with matches being shown on sky the good people of Sheffield might realise that we have actually got a Rugby League Team !!! whether we would go full time is another question depending on prize money and funding Obviously if we dont go full time we will have a difficult task on our hands hopefully there will be funding in place to insure that promoted teams can be competitive in the superleague. Relegated teams will probably have an inflated salary bill so perhaps the RFL could introduce parachute payments like relegated premiership football teams

Even though we are succesful at Championship level and it is great fun winning Grand Finals I am sure i am not the only fan who has dreams of us playing in the Super League at some point without Promotion there are no dreams and all our best players and staff will move to Superleague sides

We've been in $uperleague and all that didn't happen. In fact, it was so bad, we moved to Huddersfield. Why will it be different next time ?

Re: What should the RFL do with regard to the restructure ? : Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:57 pm  

The merger with Huddersfield happened before i started watching Rugby League i have read what it says on wiki it sounds like we struggling for crowds (Surprise Surprise) and merged because the RFL offered us 1 million pounds.

Will it be different next time who knows ? It will certainly be difficult but Griff are you saying that if we won promotion to the Superleague we should decline the opportunity ?

Re: What should the RFL do with regard to the restructure ? : Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:40 pm  

I'd love us to dine at the top table again i've got some great memories, we've always struggled for crowds but we did get a fair few after we won the challenge cup 8k v wigan around 7k v leeds and 6k v halifax just after. Problem was we lost those games (we had a big injury list if I remember right) and the extra interest was lost. Simply just being in Superleague I remember a fair amount of local media interest in the club and a general interest around the city Sheffielders knew who we was and what we did alot more sheffielders were willing to go to a game

Sheffield's average gates in Superleague

1996: 4704
1997: 4253
1998: 4462
1999: 3540 I put the 1999 season's drop in attendances down to Tim Adams summer long "we're looking to relocate the club" utter drivel that went down like a lead balloon

But i suppose non of it matters as promotion and relegation WILL be returning in one form or another in 2015

Re: What should the RFL do with regard to the restructure ? : Sat Jan 11, 2014 11:01 pm  

griff1998 wrote:

We've been in $uperleague and all that didn't happen. In fact, it was so bad, we moved to Huddersfield. Why will it be different next time ?

Without hope of being able to play against the best what is the point?

I live in hope of seening Fev play at the top level, though it has to be done in a sustainable way, not in a way that will see my club go bust on the back of of over streaching.

Re: What should the RFL do with regard to the restructure ? : Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:19 am  

duggs413 wrote:

The merger with Huddersfield happened before i started watching Rugby League i have read what it says on wiki it sounds like we struggling for crowds (Surprise Surprise) and merged because the RFL offered us 1 million pounds.

Will it be different next time who knows ? It will certainly be difficult but Griff are you saying that if we won promotion to the Superleague we should decline the opportunity ?

You need around £5m of turnover to be in $uperleague. That would certainly have to come from someone else's pocket, not mine.

Re: What should the RFL do with regard to the restructure ? : Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:24 am  

FevGrinder wrote:

Without hope of being able to play against the best what is the point?

I live in hope of seeing Fev play at the top level, though it has to be done in a sustainable way, not in a way that will see my club go bust on the back of of over stretching.

Then licensing is the route for you.

People overplay this minimum standards business. Every league down to the lowest level has standards of some sort.

Re: What should the RFL do with regard to the restructure ? : Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:16 am  

To get 5 million turnover you will need average crowds of around 8,000 according to my basic maths (1.5M from RFL 1M from Sponsors Adverts Merchandise 2.5M Gate Receipts) looking at crowd averages from last year 12/14 clubs have an average attendance of 6000 of more. I think any promoted club would struggle to get even close to that average so any promoted club would have to stay part time with a few full time players so they will struggle and there could be a few thrashings and probable relegation. It is getting this way in Football as well I support another team with the nickname Eagles Crystal Palace we got promoted to the premier league with one of the weakest squads ever seen at the top level we are currently bottom but are reasonably competitive we have only be beaten by 3 goals or more twice

Club... SL:2013... (SL:2012)
Leeds... 15197... (14948)
Wigan... 14545... (16043)
Hull... 11680... (11885)
St Helens... 11345... (14087)
Warrington... 10633... (11452)
Bradford... 8563... (11761)
Catalan... 8363... (9385)
Wakefield... 7972... (8172)
Hull KR... 7495... (7786)
Huddersfield... 6368... (7709)
Castleford... 6306... (6633)
Widnes... 6015... (5977)
Salford... 3125... (5503)
London... 2213... (2808)

Average... 8570... (9564)

Re: What should the RFL do with regard to the restructure ? : Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:35 pm  

Not sure whether you're saying that you want or don't want promotion based on those figures, duggs.

How do you think a "few thrashings and probable relegation" will affect crowds ?