Come on there having a great day today! It's gone 2pm and nothing's gone wrong yet!

No Grendel that's what he's talking out of!!

I care about celtic, and quite alot of other fans do, i have heard people from virtually every club say that they want celtic to do well, just because you want crusaders to fail dont think that the opinion is universal. In there first sl season they are on the same level for crowds as salford, and they are wipping boys, with a more succesful team and a few years to put down roots i can see them being a succes like catalans.

...but there's the rub.... Catalans STARTED with sixty years of roots. If you don't know, Catalans Dragons are an amalgum of St Esteve and Treize Catalans, the two most successful teams from the French domestic RL, which goes back to the 1930s.

My concern, from the outset, was that Crusaders were trying to build top-down, not growing a base for an application to SL in 3-12 years' time. I want Crusaders to work. I've always raised the fear that it was being rushed, and that a a failure this time would kill off Welsh development for decades to come.

Let's hope it really is all a bed of roses (and leeks and daffodyls)

yes thanks i am aware of the history of catalans. I dont think it was ever going to be a bed of roses, it was always going to be a hard first year for celtic, the next few years will be the acid test, but i think that they have alot of potential and will soon (next few years) be outstripping quins for crowds by a good distance and i think they could overtake a few heartland clubs on the field as well. Time will tell.

I don't! and you're right, time will tell! Tho I'm not yet sure how much time..................

That i think is wishful thinking on your part, though why an rl fan would wish for an rl to die mystifies me.

errrr........ where have I said that??????

So you want celtic crusaders to succeed and prove that the rfl where right to admit them into sl after all?

Indeed. We played them in the first Cup Winners Cup, Arthur Atkinson scoring.

I've said many times. I really don't care a toss either way if they won the GF this year or go out of existance in a gratuitous manner. I don't believe it was right for them to play in the NL with the advantages they had, the concept of the licencing arrangements or the need to put them in SL last year.

FWIW I believe they should have had a far more established base than they did, earn their spurs in the NL and develop a business model not solely reliant on one man.

I believe it is a project doomed to failure and believe either Widnes and to a much lesser exent Leigh, would have faired better than the celtic club.

I am that embittered with the RL/SL at the mo, my feelings towards the Celtic club are clouded by my angst. Do I want em to fail??? Prob no, but I believe they will, unless they take a step back to the NL and build up a sensible business plan - with the existance of a Plan B!!! Tho I feel it may be too late anyhow. As you say, Time will indeed tell.

My anger towards the RL/SL will be ten times worse if they do fail!

If your angry with the rfl be angry with the rfl, celtic played by the rules that were set for them by the rfl, i was angry with the rfl in 2006 because we got relegated without being bottom, but i wasnt angry with catalans, i still wanted to see them succeed as i want to see all clubs succeed for the good of the sport, i cant understand why a rl fan wouldnt want a club to be a success (whether its wakey or widnes, blackpool or bradford etc) for the good of the sport even if your are honestley indifferant, i find it a crying shame that a 'supporter' of our sport doesnt want good things to happen to our sport.