: Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:55 am  

i beleive that widnes. fax and barrow would all have won 3 games in super league this season, while not breaking the law/cheating

: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:45 am  

I think you might add Featherstone to that list - they were 'relegated' to make way for Paris St Germain!!
And Batley - finished 2nd in Div 2 and told - sorry lads, you're not going up!

: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:05 pm  

Rotherham Fev Fan wrote:

I think you might add Featherstone to that list - they were 'relegated' to make way for Paris St Germain!!
And Batley - finished 2nd in Div 2 and told - sorry lads, you're not going up!

Fine Fev and Batley together with Widnes and the cougars.....all have valid reasons to feel that SKY TV/SL/the RFL shafted them. Halifax, where this little troll resides and leigh seem to be where most of the bitch1ng comes from though. Funny that. Fax had their day in the sun and spectacularly blew it, whilst Leigh gained 5 points (IIRC) during their 1 year..........both brought loads to Superleague
4,043 turned up to see Leigh's first SL game and 4,735 as an average for a club that was then 127 years old is more of a concern than fans watching Celtic Crusaders.
The leigh public were so delighted that their team were in SL that a massive 4,180 turned up for their second game that year....fantastic and 3,201 witnessed their first win of the season, 3,213 witnessed the only other win that season and 3,427 saw them get their only other point. FFS.....what is it about certain fans of certain clubs who think the DESERVE to be in SL.......

: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:12 pm  

gutterfax wrote: Really? Based on what? Your record breaking 2003 season where you won 1 game, when you ended the season with nil points after being docked 2 for cheating? The same season that you had an average gate that was more than 500 LESS than the mighty London Broncos? The season that your team was full of mediocre Australian talent?....seriously, what do you base this statement on? I have no issue with Halifax fans, but as I have said before, only the fans of Widnes and Keighly Cougars have any grounds for being shafted by SL/the RFL.......the rest of the clubs are using conjecture. What has any of that got to do with what he wrote? He said that he feels fax, barrows and widnes COULD win 3 games in SL with the teams they have THIS year. Fax took cas into extra time in the challenge cup so i see no reason why they or barrow who are even better could not pick up 4/5, maybe more wins if they had been in SL this year. The fact is that they aren't in SL and they have to deal with it and i'm sure they will. However I think certainly the Barrow team (with Jamie Rooney, Ned Catic, Andy Bracek etc.) could have equalled if not better celtics attempts in SL this season which is shocking considering the championship has a salary cap which is a quarter of the SL cap.

gutterfax wrote: Really? Based on what? Your record breaking 2003 season where you won 1 game, when you ended the season with nil points after being docked 2 for cheating? The same season that you had an average gate that was more than 500 LESS than the mighty London Broncos? The season that your team was full of mediocre Australian talent?....seriously, what do you base this statement on? I have no issue with Halifax fans, but as I have said before, only the fans of Widnes and Keighly Cougars have any grounds for being shafted by SL/the RFL.......the rest of the clubs are using conjecture. What has any of that got to do with what he wrote? He said that he feels fax, barrows and widnes COULD win 3 games in SL with the teams they have THIS year. Fax took cas into extra time in the challenge cup so i see no reason why they or barrow who are even better could not pick up 4/5, maybe more wins if they had been in SL this year. The fact is that they aren't in SL and they have to deal with it and i'm sure they will. However I think certainly the Barrow team (with Jamie Rooney, Ned Catic, Andy Bracek etc.) could have equalled if not better celtics attempts in SL this season which is shocking considering the championship has a salary cap which is a quarter of the SL cap.

: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:24 pm  

Nozzy wrote:

What has any of that got to do with what he wrote?

Loads......halifaxxx is a troll with a record (of other names) of getting booted off this site. He assumes that Championship 1 teams such as Fax, Barrow and Widnes would have won more games in SL than the Welsh, but backs this up with no facts. He also said they would do it without cheating and I simply replied that Halifax went down with 1 win and 0 points.....as they were deducted for Cheating.
As for fax taking Castleford to extra time.......yep, so Fax DREW with Castleford, playing in a one off game, in a knock out competition.....they didn't win. A cup game isn't a good monitor of 27 rounds of Superleague.....it's a one-off and the underdogs have a better chance in a one-off.

: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:01 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

Loads......halifaxxx is a troll with a record (of other names) of getting booted off this site. He assumes that Championship 1 teams such as Fax, Barrow and Widnes would have won more games in SL than the Welsh, but backs this up with no facts. He also said they would do it without cheating and I simply replied that Halifax went down with 1 win and 0 points.....as they were deducted for Cheating.
As for fax taking Castleford to extra time.......yep, so Fax DREW with Castleford, playing in a one off game, in a knock out competition.....they didn't win. A cup game isn't a good monitor of 27 rounds of Superleague.....it's a one-off and the underdogs have a better chance in a one-off.

I'm sorry but the highlighted bit just doesn't make sense. How is he (and im aware he's a troll and a tool but i actually agree with part of this argument) supposed to give EVIDENCE on the hypothetical situation of halifax or barrow being in SL? The ONLY real evidence of how competitive they would be is the CC matches where Fax managed a draw. I agree with you that this is different to a SL match but its all we've got to go off.

Personally, (And this is what made me decide to get involved in this discussion) from watching Celtic on TV and watching Barrow and Fax when they were playing us (Home and Away) and also watching them on TV I really dont think there is much difference in quality between Barrow's team and Celtics and also Fax (before the wheels came off).

Being in different leagues and with celtic being able to spend up to 4 times as much and having a different quota (Not a complaint as I understand why it is needed) compared to Barrow only allowed a quota of 1 it just struck me how badly celtic seem to have recruited.




BTW reading over my post i've just realised it sounds massively Barrow biased so just want to point out that i'm not a Barrow fan i've just been impressed by their performances this season.

: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:20 pm  

Nozzy wrote:

i'm not a Barrow fan i've just been impressed by their performances this season.

...as am I...

There is no comparison between say Barrow and the Welsh, because as you rightly point out, the playing fields aren't level and neither have they been over the last few years. The point I am trying to make is that with teams such as Fax and Leigh, there seems to be an attitude that they deserve to be in SL and the Welsh don't. Well, I hate to be a realist, but SKY own the game at professional level in this country and without them, the game would be a small, insular and semi-pro sport. Does anyone think that Wigan buying everything was good for the game?
The playing fields will level out over time and the Salary cap is working HKR/HUDDS/WAKEY.....all doing well this year and Wire might finally get something out of King for all the cash they've wasted on him. I sympathise with fans of once great clubs who feel aggrieved that they are excluded at the expense of expansion clubs, but without expansion, the game will not attract the money from ad revenue and new dish sales that Sky crave....and therefore, SKY leave the game and it becomes a joke sport. The flip side is that even if they expand to 16 teams next time around, if a Championship club win their division 3 years running, have a decent stadium and youth set up, it will become impossible for the RFL/SKY/SL to ignore them. But, fans from certain clubs (and board members of those clubs) think that moaning about how unfair it is will not do themselves or the game any favours.
Bottom line is that Widnes currently have the strongest argument for inclusion in Superleague and if Leigh and Halifax fans disagree, then they are just being myopic.
As it is, to say that Fax, Widnes or Barrow would have won more games is a statement based on no facts.....as recruitment may not have been handled in the same way at those clubs. All I did was point out that Fax won 1 game and had those points deducted for cheating........ and as FAX are the home team of the little troll, I felt the point relevant

: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:33 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

...as am I...

There is no comparison between say Barrow and the Welsh, because as you rightly point out, the playing fields aren't level and neither have they been over the last few years. The point I am trying to make is that with teams such as Fax and Leigh, there seems to be an attitude that they deserve to be in SL and the Welsh don't. Well, I hate to be a realist, but SKY own the game at professional level in this country and without them, the game would be a small, insular and semi-pro sport. Does anyone think that Wigan buying everything was good for the game?
The playing fields will level out over time and the Salary cap is working HKR/HUDDS/WAKEY.....all doing well this year and Wire might finally get something out of King for all the cash they've wasted on him. I sympathise with fans of once great clubs who feel aggrieved that they are excluded at the expense of expansion clubs, but without expansion, the game will not attract the money from ad revenue and new dish sales that Sky crave....and therefore, SKY leave the game and it becomes a joke sport. The flip side is that even if they expand to 16 teams next time around, if a Championship club win their division 3 years running, have a decent stadium and youth set up, it will become impossible for the RFL/SKY/SL to ignore them. But, fans from certain clubs (and board members of those clubs) think that moaning about how unfair it is will not do themselves or the game any favours.
Bottom line is that Widnes currently have the strongest argument for inclusion in Superleague and if Leigh and Halifax fans disagree, then they are just being myopic.
As it is, to say that Fax, Widnes or Barrow would have won more games is a statement based on no facts.....as recruitment may not have been handled in the same way at those clubs. All I did was point out that Fax won 1 game and had those points deducted for cheating........ and as FAX are the home team of the little troll, I felt the point relevant

Whilst I doubt we will agree on franchising the point i was making wasn't a 'Kick celtic out cheats cheats blah blah blah' type rant, and i wasnt saying that barrow fax or anyone else should be in SL at their expense. (I have my own views on who should be in SL but its irrelevant so i wont go into it.)

My point was that, despite the numerous advantages at their disposal such as larger salary cap and quota, Celtic have IMO been unable to put together a team that is much (if at all) better than a top championship side without any of these advantages. Surely whoever is in charge of recruitment needs to put a LOT more thought into their team for next year.

: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:44 pm  

Nozzy wrote:

My point was that, despite the numerous advantages at their disposal such as larger salary cap and quota, Celtic have IMO been unable to put together a team that is much (if at all) better than a top championship side without any of these advantages. Surely whoever is in charge of recruitment needs to put a LOT more thought into their team for next year.

I agree, but I wasn't posting about the celtic recruitent policy..... I was initially responding to a fax "fan" that called Celtic cheats (not proven at the moment either Mods....the players are guilty as far as UKBA are concerned, but until UKBA slap a fine on the club...a tad libelous).........and that Fax would have won more games.

Pot Kettle reply in that 2003, they won 1 game and cheated.......both facts. And they were a team with 8 years of SL.....so no excuse on tough recruitment either....

: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm  

Did anyone see the Superleague Show on Sunday (It was on Sky 101 so will have been national on the Beeb and Sky)? The RFL communications bloke was interviewed, as was Celtic Chief Exec and one of the players soon to be back in Australia (felt sorry for him, I did).

It seems that 13 other clubs used the very same visas used by Celtic for the Aussie six during the same period. The RFL has requested sight of the UKBA report to see why Celtic have been targeted, given the widespread perfectly legitimate use of those particular visas at that time.