: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:25 pm  

Hedgehog King wrote:

I think Crusaders can survive one bad season but if the next one is equally poor then things aren't going to be pretty. They aren't the worst side to play SL by some distance but you can't really market a club as "Not the worst side ever to play the game".

Debateable

I'd agree though problem isn't getting them out of trouble this year it's the next two! They have to DOUBLE home gate to even break even, gonna happen? Highly unlikely!

: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:31 pm  

J20 wrote:

They have to DOUBLE home gate to even break even, gonna happen? Highly unlikely!

Why?

: Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:48 pm  

J20, we need to average 4500 gate to break even. We are loitering around 3500. That is 1000 more, NOT double. Don't think a lot of Widnes educational standards

: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:01 pm  

Grendel wrote:

J20, we need to average 4500 gate to break even. We are loitering around 3500. That is 1000 more, NOT double. Don't think a lot of Widnes educational standards

He means 4,500 full paying supporters

And to tell the truth I dont see how even that many would break you even

Not if you were intending to spend at the max salary cap

I would have thought that to break even any SL club would need at least 6/7,000 averages if they were to spend anywhere near full S/C

: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:06 pm  

Starbug wrote:

I would have thought that to break even any SL club would need at least 6/7,000 averages if they were to spend anywhere near full S/C

Wouldn't other elements come into play too, though? Like income generating opportunities, overheads, sponsorship deals, etc. I'm sure that if any British rugby league club (at any level) relied solely upon gates then most of them would go bust.

: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:09 pm  

Starbug I KNOW he means full paying supporters. We are averaging around 3500 full paying supporters. There are freebies for the big games to sweeten the deal, but very few have been handed out this last few games.

We are, I understand, spending nowhere near the salary cap which may explain a few things but have / had a good sponsorship deal with Brains.

: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:27 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Wouldn't other elements come into play too, though? Like income generating opportunities, overheads, sponsorship deals, etc. I'm sure that if any British rugby league club (at any level) relied solely upon gates then most of them would go bust.

Put is this way , last night a saints fan was telling me that mr Mcmanus was having to chip in to keep them afloat on 10,000 crowds and making finals left right and centre

So if they need at least 10,000 I would guess any other club would need at least something similar

: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:38 pm  

Starbug wrote:

Put is this way , last night a saints fan was telling me that mr Mcmanus was having to chip in to keep them afloat on 10,000 crowds and making finals left right and centre

So if they need at least 10,000 I would guess any other club would need at least something similar

Well, it's like I said, there are other things at play too. McManus at a fans forum last season openly admitted that he has had to dip into his pocket every season so far but he laid the blame on that primarily upon the stadium we have, which we also own and therefore are solely responsible for. You don't have that headache. There have been times when bits of our stadium - a grand word for Knowsley Road, it has to be said! - have had to be closed off because they have been dangerous. We cannot have functions there because the rooms, such as they are (very few and small), are tired and old and not equipped for functions. In other words, our stadium is draining our resources massively but producing virtually nothing in terms of income. Crusaders, if on a good deal renting at Bridgend, will not have that burden and any income they generate can be fed back into the club, which will be of benefit over and above what you get through the gates.

But I do not think the situation is as bleak where your gate is concerned as you do at present. What you desperately need are wins, especially home wins. That requires restructuring of your team, which will be painful no doubt, but necessary, and being able to spend the salary cap. Due to the ridiculously short turnaround the RFL gave you and Salford, recruitment for the Crusaders last year was not the best - it couldn't be. There just wasn't the time. This year is different and so will next season be, I really believe that.

PS: The money received for the finals, at least where the Challenge Cup is concerned, I think goes direct to players. The value of the Challenge Cup is the publicity and the sponsorship such publicity can attract. Likewise getting to Grand Finals. (I'm not sure where the Grand Final money goes, but we've lost two out of the last three so it probably was a relatively small amount anyway!)

: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:46 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Well, it's like I said, there are other things at play too. McManus at a fans forum last season openly admitted that he has had to dip into his pocket every season so far but he laid the blame on that primarily upon the stadium we have, which we also own and therefore are solely responsible for. You don't have that headache. There have been times when bits of our stadium - a grand word for Knowsley Road, it has to be said! - have had to be closed off because they have been dangerous. We cannot have functions there because the rooms, such as they are (very few and small), are tired and old and not equipped for functions. In other words, our stadium is draining our resources massively but producing virtually nothing in terms of income. Crusaders, if on a good deal renting at Bridgend, will not have that burden and any income they generate can be fed back into the club, which will be of benefit over and above what you get through the gates.


But I do not think the situation is as bleak where your gate is concerned as you do at present. What you desperately need are wins, especially home wins. That requires restructuring of your team, which will be painful no doubt, but necessary, and being able to spend the salary cap. Due to the ridiculously short turnaround the RFL gave you and Salford, recruitment for the Crusaders last year was not the best - it couldn't be. There just wasn't the time. This year is different and so will next season be, I really believe that.

PS: The money received for the finals, at least where the Challenge Cup is concerned, I think goes direct to players. The value of the Challenge Cup is the publicity and the sponsorship such publicity can attract. Likewise getting to Grand Finals. (I'm not sure where the Grand Final money goes, but we've lost two out of the last three so it probably was a relatively small amount anyway!)

Have you been to Brewery Field , I have been in saints corporate

If Brewery field was any good at producing income why would Mr Samuels have sold the lease and is now looking at re locating to Newport

As for your success not producing income , yes CC bonus is not included in S/C income so that would go straight to the players but there is income from merchandise and tickets sales so the only part of Saints that isn't ' working ' is the stadium

Celtic on the other hand isn't ' working ' on any level at the moment

: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:55 pm  

Starbug wrote:

If Brewery field was any good at producing income why would Mr Samuels have sold the lease and is now looking at re locating to Newport

You just don't read my posts, do you? I didn't say Brewery Field was good at producing income. I said the fact that the Crusaders don't own it means they don't have the same revenue-draining headache that Saints have (because Saints do own Knowsley Road). Well, it's a headache for our chairman anyway, who has dipped into his pocket to keep us afloat because of it.

there is income from merchandise and tickets sales so the only part of Saints that isn't ' working ' is the stadium

Indeed we do have merchandise sales, as will the Crusaders. However, you clearly haven't a clue what you are talking about when you diminish Knowsley Road to 'only' the stadium which isn't working. Not a fecking clue. It costs an amazing amount of money just to keep our health and safety certificate.

Celtic on the other hand isn't ' working ' on any level at the moment

It's still there, so it is working on that level, and from what I've heard it is doing very well indeed on the youth development front, which is a long term commitment. So there are two levels on which the Crusaders club is working, you negative person.