Re: 7 Days to go, how's your off season been? : Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:56 am  

hull2524 wrote:

hessle rover, maybe so but he didn't play much for you as didn't campese and Kelly, the statement said on match days some didn't perform? just wondering who there where and are they still with you

Good post and for me Clarkson allgood green Horne (odd time fit)Kelly stunk for most part but when good was very good.i liked campo but was never fit.again tilse gets pelters but many more gave much less and evaded criticism. Had too many lightweight forwards and 3 big earners rarely played together. Minns was a positive Blair tried hard. We were not the worst team last year but Webster was a a very poor coach and for me was the pivotal bad decision in a list of bad decisions

Re: 7 Days to go, how's your off season been? : Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:44 am  

craig hkr wrote:

Good post and for me Clarkson allgood green Horne (odd time fit)Kelly stunk for most part but when good was very good.i liked campo but was never fit.again tilse gets pelters but many more gave much less and evaded criticism. Had too many lightweight forwards and 3 big earners rarely played together. Minns was a positive Blair tried hard. We were not the worst team last year but Webster was a a very poor coach and for me was the pivotal bad decision in a list of bad decisions

Allgood wasn't bad and played injured but he was never good enough for to be a top earner, Campo looked ok when he first came back and lasted a game or 2 but was pitiful in the last few games, lacked any creativity and guile. Overall our kicking game last year was dreadful. Campo and Kelly (one or so 40-20 aside) didn't seem to understand how or when to put an attacking kick, a high bomb or a grubber in. Don't know if it was training or set plays that lacked but we just looked headless anywhere near the oppo line and with HB as coach that's disappointing.

For me Thornley, Green, Clarkson, Campo (when he played) and Kelly were lacking in either effort or application, Mantellato was clearly injured, Sio underused and Cockayne not good enough for the position he played. Add into that the decision to put Horne into centre in the last game and its a perfect storm.

Re: 7 Days to go, how's your off season been? : Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:18 am  

In sio we probably had best right winger in league but all we used him for was exit sets.mantellato being injured large part of season was very costly And we would probably sneaked a couple more wins with him kicking. Comparing the outside backs to last year we do look to have bit more speed this time around Heffernan looked rapid and Moss certainly is.Quinlan Minns are Quick oakes/Butler flem iv not seen much of.add in salter cockayne Shaw and Hodgson and it looks very good.if our porky half's have quick hands and put it wide sharp we should see lots of long range try's?

Re: 7 Days to go, how's your off season been? : Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:57 am  

OK thanks. Tbf I think you look better this year

[Mild Rover]

Re: 7 Days to go, how's your off season been? : Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:22 pm  

2016 wasn't mainly down to individuals, IMO. Obviously Campse's injuries and Kelly's issues didn't help, but it wasn't a hugely strong squad.

If players are simplistically rated out 10 for quality within super league, a strong team might have one top 9- or 10-rated star, a handful of 8s, plenty of 7s and 6s, and a few 5s making up the numbers/developing.

We didn't have enough 8s and 7s and had too many 6s and 5s instead. Being a 6 doesn't mean a player is soft or disinterested or deserving of blame or couldn't contribute to a successful team effort - it is an issue when he's surrounded by almost nothing but other 6s and 5s though. Chuck in a cack pre-season and we were in trouble from the get-go.

All that said, we went down by the finest of margins, and a lot of those SL 6-rated players will be 8-rated in the championship and maybe 6.5-rated against the weaker SL teams if/when we play in the middle 8s.

Re: 7 Days to go, how's your off season been? : Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:37 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

2016 wasn't mainly down to individuals, IMO. Obviously Campse's injuries and Kelly's issues didn't help, but it wasn't a hugely strong squad.

If players are simplistically rated out 10 for quality within super league, a strong team might have one top 9- or 10-rated star, a handful of 8s, plenty of 7s and 6s, and a few 5s making up the numbers/developing.

We didn't have enough 8s and 7s and had too many 6s and 5s instead. Being a 6 doesn't mean a player is soft or disinterested or deserving of blame or couldn't contribute to a successful team effort - it is an issue when he's surrounded by almost nothing but other 6s and 5s though. Chuck in a cack pre-season and we were in trouble from the get-go.

All that said, we went down by the finest of margins, and a lot of those SL 6-rated players will be 8-rated in the championship and maybe 6.5-rated against the weaker SL teams if/when we play in the middle 8s.

I'd say the demise started well before 2016. Relegation has been on the cards for a few years.

It's simply down to bad recruitment of both players and coaches and bad luck with injuries. Although that could be classed as bad recruitment.

[R.B.A]

Re: 7 Days to go, how's your off season been? : Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:30 pm  

Marcus's Bicycle wrote:

I'd say the demise started well before 2016. Relegation has been on the cards for a few years.

It's simply down to bad recruitment of both players and coaches and bad luck with injuries. Although that could be classed as bad recruitment.

We had definitely started to stagnate as a club before 2016 but to say that relegation has been on the cards for a few years is garbage. Relegation wasn't reintroduced until the 2015 season. We ended the middle 8s 7 from 7 so relegation was never a serious possibility. Prior to that I think the last year of relegation was 2009. We finished 4th that season.

To put our demise simply down bad recruitment is massively over simplistic and I would expect that the club will have undertaken a far more forensic investigation.

Apart from that your post was pretty accurate.

Re: 7 Days to go, how's your off season been? : Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:45 pm  

Almost non existant pre season 2016 (as it was for Leeds because of their floods) had a bigger impact than we realise.

Tilse was always a poor replacement for Weyman, Thornley looked disinterested and the rest were at times too complacent or paniced when close to the try line and therefore too often took bad options. All fine margins yes, but caving in to Hull whilst 20 up is a fine example of lack of will power or game management from last season.

My statement earlier remains, this season we need to show Patience, Power and Ruthlessness on the field. At times last season we had Power for certain periods but the other two were generally AWOL in 2016.

Power is obvious, Patience covers ball control and game management as well as stopping the panic style play and Ruthlessness to punish the oppositions mistakes and exploit their weaknesses. It isn't pretty, but that has to be the ploy to get us promoted.

Re: 7 Days to go, how's your off season been? : Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:22 pm  

Gallanteer wrote:

Almost non existant pre season 2016 (as it was for Leeds because of their floods) had a bigger impact than we realise.

Tilse was always a poor replacement for Weyman, Thornley looked disinterested and the rest were at times too complacent or paniced when close to the try line and therefore too often took bad options. All fine margins yes, but caving in to Hull whilst 20 up is a fine example of lack of will power or game management from last season.

My statement earlier remains, this season we need to show Patience, Power and Ruthlessness on the field. At times last season we had Power for certain periods but the other two were generally AWOL in 2016.

Power is obvious, Patience covers ball control and game management as well as stopping the panic style play and Ruthlessness to punish the oppositions mistakes and exploit their weaknesses. It isn't pretty, but that has to be the ploy to get us promoted.

You seem completely obsessed by Tilse. People obviously see him in different ways. You did not rate him, I accept that. I think we know your opinion by now.

Re: 7 Days to go, how's your off season been? : Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:13 pm  

I think if we are looking at when the demise of the team started we have to go back to when Michael Dobson left.
For 2 seasons before he had organised the team and game management singlehanded.
We had some good results in 2015 which cumulated with our Wembley apparance but never really replaced him.
Others played their part in our problems, Kelly, Larroyer, Josh Hodgson leaving (he deserved his Aussie venture) Weymans retirement etc but Dobbo is the main one we have never replaced.