Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:05 am  

I am not happy with the cap in the Championship and like it to go upto £600,000 so Widnes can dominate.I like winning easily against the poor supported Batley teams etc. Then i wont here the crap like we are the worst team to be promoted,because we are 5th in the league.

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:10 am  

OFFTHECUFF wrote:

I am not happy with the cap in the Championship and like it to go upto £600,000 so Widnes can dominate.I like winning easily against the poor supported Batley teams etc. Then i wont here the crap like we are the worst team to be promoted,because we are 5th in the league.

You're up early for school

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:06 am  

Pepe wrote:

This is complete bullsh*t and you know it!

Widnes are not the favourites because they are the darlings of the RFL. We see what you see:
This admission shows just how pathetic your little rant was.

Believe me, if Widnes don’t get a licence for 2012, no other heartland club ever will again. It would mean that our bid would have to be bettered sometime in the future. Given what Widnes have in place, this would be a massive ask. That would mean that the ladder is pulled up for good, for us all. At least, should Widnes get a licence, there is atill hope for the rest and there would be a standard and a target set.

None of what I say is arrogance because you must know what I am saying is true. This makes all the talk about us Widnes fans thinking that we have some divine right to Super League, look ridiculous. If we didn’t have a strong bid there wouldn’t be anyone demanding a licence ahead of those who do. The people who think they have a divine right to SL are those who demand SL despite the obvious short-comings of their clubs when compared to others – see Barrow fans for details.

The gap from the Championship, wherever you finish, is huge. So huge, as to make where you finish almost irrelevant.

What really matters is how close a club can get to the SL salary cap and sustain this level of investment over the years. For that, you need the infrastructure, Sponsors/financial backing, Stadia, crowds and youth structure. Widnes are the only club to have all this in place, within the Championship, now.

The two clubs which got the nod ahead of us last time didn’t have what we have and have struggled as a result. Salford have spent the last two years bumbling along the bottom of SL trying to save money by not spending to the cap, so they can have a desperate push in the last season of the current licence agreement. Celtic Crusaders couldn’t even get through one season before the RFL had to send in a team of trouble shooters to try and save them. They, in essence, no longer exist. These two clubs contested the Grand Final. So being at the top of the Championship isn’t a good indicator of how well a club will fair in Super League for 3 years, without the safety net of relegation.

I know that Widnes would struggle in it's first season back in SL. That would be the way of it for any team newly promoted. It's what they can bring to the table after that which counts. Improving your on-field performance can be as simple as recruiting a new coach – see Wigan and Wire for details.

There’s no doubt in my mind that posts like yours, and the looney Barrow fans on this thread, are motivated by on thing – the green eyed monster!

Before you call me arrogant, don’t forget who said that giving Widnes a licence was “a no-brainer.”

Instead of coming on here spouting the same, boring, old, ill thought out platitudes, that they trot out on the VT, try thinking.

Ah, excellent. Somebody has responded to a post of mine by taking the time to split it into little sections, disect it and feel that I was looking for an argument. I feel i've made it!

I wasn't saying that you are RFL darlings, but you that are one of the 14 teams that the RFL want to and will put in in 2012. As I said previously, you should be one of super league clubs in 2012, but what has caused the resentment is the way the RFL have yet again managed to turn the whole system into a farce. Why not announce your promotion now, that would mean you can announce things like your Super League season ticket prices, oh hang on...

I gave the examples of Catalans, Celtic and Paris, to remind you that the whole concept of franchising is an emotive one and can lead to resentment, and Widnes fans should know this more than anyone.

To say that no club outside super league will ever submit a better bid than yours is incredibly arrogant in my opinion, and you compare me with the "looney Barrow fans" with the green eyed monster, but the point of my post was to point out why there may be resentment towards the way this round of franchises have been managed, rather than say Widnes don't deserve a franchise.

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:13 pm  

LeythIg wrote:

Ah, excellent. Somebody has responded to a post of mine by taking the time to split it into little sections, disect it and feel that I was looking for an argument. I feel i've made it!

It's not a difficult thing to do and it allows one to address each point clearly.

LeythIg wrote:

I wasn't saying that you are RFL darlings, but you that are one of the 14 teams that the RFL want to and will put in in 2012. As I said previously, you should be one of super league clubs in 2012, but what has caused the resentment is the way the RFL have yet again managed to turn the whole system into a farce. Why not announce your promotion now, that would mean you can announce things like your Super League season ticket prices, oh hang on...

I gave the examples of Catalans, Celtic and Paris, to remind you that the whole concept of franchising is an emotive one and can lead to resentment, and Widnes fans should know this more than anyone.

If it’s all the RFL’s fault, why are you crying at Widnes fans?

So Widnes are no better than Celtic and Paris etc?

LeythIg wrote:

To say that no club outside super league will ever submit a better bid than yours is incredibly arrogant in my opinion, and you compare me with the "looney Barrow fans" with the green eyed monster, but the point of my post was to point out why there may be resentment towards the way this round of franchises have been managed, rather than say Widnes don't deserve a franchise.

FFS another thick c*nt with an inability read and digest simple information – it's like hammering nails into metal. You have clearly missed the point I was making. It actually includes my own club you idiot!

It only appears arrogant to those who are too stupid to understand the scenario that I have put forward. Read it again and try to understand the context in which it that statement was put. I don’t have the inclination to explain it here, as I have already done that in a later post, and it is perfectly clear in the original post anyway.

The green-eyed monster in some wants desperately to believe that we are arrogant. It gives them something to get all angry about. Unlike the RFL, Widnes fans are here and available to take pot shots at.

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:22 pm  

Gary High wrote:

You're up early for school

Billy Smarts circus is not on this board.You are a top grade clown. Bored of you now, and if i was a moderator i would ban you for been a turnip.

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:14 pm  

Pepe wrote:

So, which current Champioship club will be able to put in place a bid, that betters the one Widnes are likely to put forward, in the foreseeable future?


- Top internationally recognised Sponsors/ wealthy owners
- £2.5 million turn over/£1million profit
- The ability to play up to the cap level in SL
- Attendances 3,000+
- Full youth system/8 homegrown players in squad and 11 used in one season. u16’s & u18’s playing in the top groupings and beating almost all before them. Reserve side doing well and a top service area.
- Community set up and player education pathways
- A known average attendance level in SL of 7,000 (That achieved while being relegated)
- Stadium with state of the art facilities such as top class gym/briefing rooms with individual player camera search capability, chill-out rooms, media area for TV and areas for journalists to write reports with online facility and top class physio and treatment rooms – all state of the art. These do not necessarily come with a new stadium; they are very expensive additions to the infrastructure.

Several Super League sides cannot match this, never mind Championship clubs!

I’ll have a bet with you that this will not be bettered on every poin - not just one or two points but every point - by any heartland clubs in the next 3 licence applications from the Championship. Name your price and we’ll arrange a place to hold the cash until 2018 and then donate it to the charity of choice of the one who is right.

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:39 pm  

Pepe wrote:

It's not a difficult thing to do and it allows one to address each point clearly.

If it’s all the RFL’s fault, why are you crying at Widnes fans?

So Widnes are no better than Celtic and Paris etc?

FFS another thick c*nt with an inability read and digest simple information – it's like hammering nails into metal. You have clearly missed the point I was making. It actually includes my own club you idiot!

It only appears arrogant to those who are too stupid to understand the scenario that I have put forward. Read it again and try to understand the context in which it that statement was put. I don’t have the inclination to explain it here, as I have already done that in a later post, and it is perfectly clear in the original post anyway.

The green-eyed monster in some wants desperately to believe that we are arrogant. It gives them something to get all angry about. Unlike the RFL, Widnes fans are here and available to take pot shots at.

I will try for one final time to get my point across in a manner that wont get me labelled a "thick c*nt".

My original post was to point out why I believe there is some resentment on these boards towards Widnes. I think this resentment is born out of a gripe against the RFL, because there is a perception that they are picking the 14 clubs they want, with the actual application process being a redundant exercise. In 2008, this included Salford and Celtic, next year it is likely to include Widnes. So yes, I believe the RFL have managed the whole process badly.

My "crying at Widnes fans" is based on the fact that I have read a number of posts that, imo, seem to come across as the usual "i'm alright Jack" attitude that we have become used to from Super League fans.

The reason I mentioned Catalans, Celtic, and Paris comes back to me trying to explain why I believe there is resentment being displayed by fans of other clubs. I was not trying to compare the clubs, but suggesting that given the history, maybe Widnes fans could empathise with some people supporting the clubs that the RFL don't seem to give a toss about.

I still need some convincing that to suggest no non-super league club will ever submit a franchise bid that is better than the one you are submitting this year is a tad arrogant.

This is my opinion, and it all relates to the backlash against your club's success rather than the merits of your Super League application. Feel free to disagree, but if your response is likely to reduce into another rant of personal abuse, don't bother responding.

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:56 pm  

Starbug wrote:

Why should Leeds and W1g4n with the biggest crowds and most revenue only be allowed to be given an equal chance to to be the champions, as Salford

It works both ways Max

Do we really want a situation as we now have in football , where if one club can for whatever reason attract a billionaire businessman , they can buy a team of internationals , and dominate the competition , we are just now in both SL and the Championships having a situation where this year clubs that have not finished top are now doing so , last years winners in both competitions have finished 4 th this year ?

Salford don't spend up to the full cap. There is sufficient room in the Super League cap that some clubs spend up to it and some don't. They also have the stability to invest sufficiently in youth and build a team that way. A cap is a luxury that they have. They are fighting over who wins the League but all are relatively comfortable in their position.

The current Championship cap is at a low enough level that most if not all the clubs spend up to it. This was never the case when we actually had promotion and relegation. This is the point, people are not just arguing for a return to P & R, they want a version that we've never had before that not only hinders clubs like Widnes, but helps their own club. They want a version where all clubs effectively have the same chance to win the league regardless of circumstances, this is effectively Communism. Clubs aren't allowed to take advantage of their advantages.

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Thu Sep 09, 2010 5:03 pm  

LeythIg wrote:

I will try for one final time to get my point across in a manner that wont get me labelled a "thick c*nt".

My original post was to point out why I believe there is some resentment on these boards towards Widnes. I think this resentment is born out of a gripe against the RFL, because there is a perception that they are picking the 14 clubs they want, with the actual application process being a redundant exercise. In 2008, this included Salford and Celtic, next year it is likely to include Widnes. So yes, I believe the RFL have managed the whole process badly.

My "crying at Widnes fans" is based on the fact that I have read a number of posts that, imo, seem to come across as the usual "i'm alright Jack" attitude that we have become used to from Super League fans.

The reason I mentioned Catalans, Celtic, and Paris comes back to me trying to explain why I believe there is resentment being displayed by fans of other clubs. I was not trying to compare the clubs,but suggesting that given the history, maybe Widnes fans could empathise with some people supporting the clubs that the RFL don't seem to give a toss about.

I still need some convincing that to suggest no non-super league club will ever submit a franchise bid that is better than the one you are submitting this year is a tad arrogant.

This is my opinion, and it all relates to the backlash against your club's success rather than the merits of your Super League application. Feel free to disagree, but if your response is likely to reduce into another rant of personal abuse, don't bother responding.

Here's the point, they come across that way if you're looking at.

The fact is that Widnes are only really ever spoken about by other clubs when we're being attacked and undermined. The reason we are being attacked is because we are clear favourites to be promoted. Of course Widnes fans will get defensive, especially when the attacks are so ignorant of the reality of the situation. We get criticised for playing to the rules that the RFL stated. We get criticised for our on the field performance when we spent up to the cap as did many other teams whilst trying to being youth through instead of higher profile players. We also seem to get the brunt of the anti-RFL anti-licensing crowd.

So you're often reading Widnes fans defending themselves against fans of other clubs. You class this as arrogant but I wouldn't.

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:55 pm  

LeythIg wrote:

I will try for one final time to get my point across in a manner that wont get me labelled a "thick c*nt".

My original post was to point out why I believe there is some resentment on these boards towards Widnes. I think this resentment is born out of a gripe against the RFL, because there is a perception that they are picking the 14 clubs they want, with the actual application process being a redundant exercise. In 2008, this included Salford and Celtic, next year it is likely to include Widnes. So yes, I believe the RFL have managed the whole process badly.

My "crying at Widnes fans" is based on the fact that I have read a number of posts that, imo, seem to come across as the usual "i'm alright Jack" attitude that we have become used to from Super League fans.

The reason I mentioned Catalans, Celtic, and Paris comes back to me trying to explain why I believe there is resentment being displayed by fans of other clubs. I was not trying to compare the clubs, but suggesting that given the history, maybe Widnes fans could empathise with some people supporting the clubs that the RFL don't seem to give a toss about.

Your Catalans, and Paris analogy just doesn’t scan. They were shoehorned into SL under very different circumstances.

Celtic Crusaders were clearly not ready to be given a licence, so that doesn’t work either.

LeythIg wrote:

it would be a no-brainer to put Widnes in SL, purely because you are one of the strongest 14 clubs

Therefore different again. This is most peoples perception. We are favourites for a totally different reason than Catalans, Celtic, and Paris. We are favourites because we clearly have the best bid.

LeythIg wrote:

it would be a no-brainer to put Widnes in SL, purely because you are one of the strongest 14 clubs

LeythIg wrote:

I still need some convincing that to suggest no non-super league club will ever submit a franchise bid that is better than the one you are submitting this year is a tad arrogant.

Your bitterness and envy will never allow you think any other way. I say this because you haven’t even bothered to acknowledge the context in which the statement was made. It isn’t even an accurate representation of what I actually wrote.

Which was:

Pepe wrote:

Believe me, if Widnes don’t get a licence for 2012, no other heartland club ever will again. It would mean that our bid would have to be bettered sometime in the future. Given what Widnes have in place, this would be a massive ask. That would mean that the ladder is pulled up for good, for us all. At least, should Widnes get a licence, there is atill hope for the rest and there would be a standard and a target set.

Let me help you to think this through. You now need to answer these simple questions, which I posed to ‘Soss’, honestly.

Pepe wrote:

Because if Widnes fail to get a licence for 2012, even though we have the best application – your words not mine – what do you think that will do to potential investors in Championship clubs and fans wanting to believe that there is a genuine pathway to SL?

What message would that send out to clubs about running expensive youth set ups?

They may as well just give up trying.


Like I said, should Widnes get a licence, it sets the standard for other clubs to follow, shows that there is actually a pathway to SL for Championship clubs, and may well actually see a club bettering Widnes’ 2012 bid. It’s the impact upon the Championship should Widnes not get the licence that could cause a problem imo.

I’m not saying another CC club couldn’t achieve it, it's just that if the best application, and a dammed good one at that, is rejected then what incentive is there for the Championship clubs if the trap door has clearly been firmly closed behind the heartland clubs for good?

It has nothing to do with arrogance. It will also see the end of Widnes as a future SL club as well.

What is wrong about these points I have raised, and how does it make me arrogant?