Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:48 am  

Zimbo wrote:

Comments like that post are exactly why soome fans of other clubs would like to see widnes fall on their @rses.
It may well end up an abyss....

pathetic you lot you know that don't you? Same as the thread on VT Barrow fans try to wind Widnes up and when get a reaction call us arrogant and say that's why other clubs hate us? Haha, great stuff... Well done!

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:19 am  

Winny Ingram wrote:

Petrololium Sour Grapes.

Ignore these jealous folk, and let them linger down in abyss that is Championship Rugby. We're just lucky that S'OC doesn't have an addiction to Betfred.

You have lingered in the Championship yourself for long enough...............Remind us why again ?

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:47 am  

Proud Viking wrote:

Thanks Fekafan,

I believe the majority of fans from all clubs recognise that Widnes are guilty of nothing more than finding out what criteria the Rugby League require to be fulfilled to qualify for Super League and fulfilling them.

I think a voluble minority are coming on here to try to upset Widnes fans out of

A) Ignorance and or

B) Resentment.

We didn't make the rules, we just worked to them, that's smart business.

We don't know for certain that we are in Super League, I won't believe it until it is formally announced.

I would have thought that Widnes fans would understand resentment more than anybody else. No, Widnes didn't make the rules, but neither did Celtic Crusaders, Catalan Dragons or Paris St. Germain. Sadly, there seems to be a number of Widnes fans on these forums that seem to have forgotten how it felt to be RFL's ideal and are now coming across in exactly the same way as some of the pompous super league fans you would previously be fighting your case against on the VT.

Ever since the last round of franchises, I've assumed that as long as SOC stuck around it would be a no-brainer to put Widnes in SL, purely because you are one of the strongest 14 clubs. However, there is no divine right to be there, and the first year could be particularly difficult as the gap from 5th in the Championship to Super League is huge.

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Wed Sep 08, 2010 9:55 am  

LeythIg wrote:

I would have thought that Widnes fans would understand resentment more than anybody else. No, Widnes didn't make the rules, but neither did Celtic Crusaders, Catalan Dragons or Paris St. Germain. Sadly, there seems to be a number of Widnes fans on these forums that seem to have forgotten how it felt to be RFL's ideal and are now coming across in exactly the same way as some of the pompous super league fans you would previously be fighting your case against on the VT.

Ever since the last round of franchises, I've assumed that as long as SOC stuck around it would be a no-brainer to put Widnes in SL, purely because you are one of the strongest 14 clubs. However, there is no divine right to be there, and the first year could be particularly difficult as the gap from 5th in the Championship to Super League is huge.

No-one's forgotten!!! Unfortunately Widnes fans are now having to contend with the same level of resentment from other Championship clubs that the teams you mentioned above had to deal with when they were placed into SL. Also you will notice that most of the arguments are generated by people coming on here or other boards and spouting stuff about how we don't 'deserve' to be in SL.

I make no apologies whatsoever for attempting to defend my team against such vitriol...

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:37 pm  

LeythIg wrote:

I would have thought that Widnes fans would understand resentment more than anybody else. No, Widnes didn't make the rules, but neither did Celtic Crusaders, Catalan Dragons or Paris St. Germain. Sadly, there seems to be a number of Widnes fans on these forums that seem to have forgotten how it felt to be RFL's ideal and are now coming across in exactly the same way as some of the pompous super league fans you would previously be fighting your case against on the VT.

Ever since the last round of franchises, I've assumed that as long as SOC stuck around it would be a no-brainer to put Widnes in SL, purely because you are one of the strongest 14 clubs. However, there is no divine right to be there, and the first year could be particularly difficult as the gap from 5th in the Championship to Super League is huge.

This is complete bullsh*t and you know it!

Widnes are not the favourites because they are the darlings of the RFL. We see what you see:

LeythIg wrote:

it would be a no-brainer to put Widnes in SL, purely because you are one of the strongest 14 clubs.

This admission shows just how pathetic your little rant was.

Believe me, if Widnes don’t get a licence for 2012, no other heartland club ever will again. It would mean that our bid would have to be bettered sometime in the future. Given what Widnes have in place, this would be a massive ask. That would mean that the ladder is pulled up for good, for us all. At least, should Widnes get a licence, there is atill hope for the rest and there would be a standard and a target set.

None of what I say is arrogance because you must know what I am saying is true. This makes all the talk about us Widnes fans thinking that we have some divine right to Super League, look ridiculous. If we didn’t have a strong bid there wouldn’t be anyone demanding a licence ahead of those who do. The people who think they have a divine right to SL are those who demand SL despite the obvious short-comings of their clubs when compared to others – see Barrow fans for details.

LeythIg wrote:

the first year could be particularly difficult as the gap from 5th in the Championship to Super League is huge.

The gap from the Championship, wherever you finish, is huge. So huge, as to make where you finish almost irrelevant.

What really matters is how close a club can get to the SL salary cap and sustain this level of investment over the years. For that, you need the infrastructure, Sponsors/financial backing, Stadia, crowds and youth structure. Widnes are the only club to have all this in place, within the Championship, now.

The two clubs which got the nod ahead of us last time didn’t have what we have and have struggled as a result. Salford have spent the last two years bumbling along the bottom of SL trying to save money by not spending to the cap, so they can have a desperate push in the last season of the current licence agreement. Celtic Crusaders couldn’t even get through one season before the RFL had to send in a team of trouble shooters to try and save them. They, in essence, no longer exist. These two clubs contested the Grand Final. So being at the top of the Championship isn’t a good indicator of how well a club will fair in Super League for 3 years, without the safety net of relegation.

I know that Widnes would struggle in it's first season back in SL. That would be the way of it for any team newly promoted. It's what they can bring to the table after that which counts. Improving your on-field performance can be as simple as recruiting a new coach – see Wigan and Wire for details.

There’s no doubt in my mind that posts like yours, and the looney Barrow fans on this thread, are motivated by on thing – the green eyed monster!

Before you call me arrogant, don’t forget who said that giving Widnes a licence was “a no-brainer.”

Instead of coming on here spouting the same, boring, old, ill thought out platitudes, that they trot out on the VT, try thinking.

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:19 pm  

No one will ever get SL from the Championship if Widnes fail...???????
I was half agreeing with you until then, there can be and WILL be stronger bids than your current one in the future. Other clubs will gain the infrastucture, backing and youth policies that work but it will take time and effort. The difference will be the achievements on the field. For me your application is weak in this department 1 NRC cup and mid table places can and will be improved on.
I agree you have the best application for the franchise, however it is not the best that can be.

Your rant does smack of arrogance if you can not see that.

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:35 pm  

SOSs how do you work that out? Look at all Champ clubs... Ate they going to add 1000 to crowds? 2mill to turnover? Build new stadiums (bar Leigh) and set up a youth structure that beats SL sides weekly?

I hope Widnes are the framework for future bids but i fail to see how another bid from current Champ sides could be stronger! On field maybe but then the other parts? Highly unlikely on current form!

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:55 pm  

<SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH> some people really do need to grow up and deal with the realities of the current system. instead of childishly and pathetically railing against Widnes. we did not create this situation. if you want to spout misinformed, childish, out right ignorent crap about us somehow being the bad guys then do it on your own teams boards. because firstly, we dont care as we actually know the realities of the current system rather than ranting about the way things 'should be' and secondly as a result of the aforementioned you are wasting your obviously copius time having a go on here.

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:57 pm  

J20 wrote:

SOSs how do you work that out? Look at all Champ clubs... Ate they going to add 1000 to crowds? 2mill to turnover? Build new stadiums (bar Leigh) and set up a youth structure that beats SL sides weekly?

I hope Widnes are the framework for future bids but i fail to see how another bid from current Champ sides could be stronger! On field maybe but then the other parts? Highly unlikely on current form!

I will wait to comment on the books when the accounts are officially posted as that has been done to death. As for crowds we all have a catchment areas; with good rugby on the pitch and advertising I can see certainly my club achieving well above 2500 average. Again this will not happen over night.
If you read it properly I said in the future. Why shouldn't clubs be able to better Widnes in the application process? How long ago was it that Widnes were in Administration? 2007..and only survived due to SOC dragging the club out of the mire. Widnes have come on leaps and bounds since then through the backing of SOC and a great financial structure.
My point is that you are not unique in this league. There are clubs with their very own SOC's waiting in the wings.

Post note...I am not slaggin Widnes off; I am agreeing that you have the strongest bid and by that should go to SL. What I am saying is that your bid is not the strongest that can be submitted and it is my opinion that stronger bids will be submitted in the future. This is a first pass from this league and Widnes HAVE laid a benchmark.

Re: WIDNES ARE CHEATS!! : Wed Sep 08, 2010 4:03 pm  

soss wrote:

No one will ever get SL from the Championship if Widnes fail...???????
I was half agreeing with you until then, there can be and WILL be stronger bids than your current one in the future. Other clubs will gain the infrastucture, backing and youth policies that work but it will take time and effort. The difference will be the achievements on the field. For me your application is weak in this department 1 NRC cup and mid table places can and will be improved on.
I agree you have the best application for the franchise, however it is not the best that can be.

Your rant does smack of arrogance if you can not see that.

So, which current Champioship club will be able to put in place a bid, that betters the one Widnes are likely to put forward, in the foreseeable future?


- Top internationally recognised Sponsors/ wealthy owners
- £2.5 million turn over/£1million profit
- The ability to play up to the cap level in SL
- Attendances 3,000+
- Full youth system/8 homegrown players in squad and 11 used in one season. u16’s & u18’s playing in the top groupings and beating almost all before them. Reserve side doing well and a top service area.
- Community set up and player education pathways
- A known average attendance level in SL of 7,000 (That achieved while being relegated)
- Stadium with state of the art facilities such as top class gym/briefing rooms with individual player camera search capability, chill-out rooms, media area for TV and areas for journalists to write reports with online facility and top class physio and treatment rooms – all state of the art. These do not necessarily come with a new stadium; they are very expensive additions to the infrastructure.

Several Super League sides cannot match this, never mind Championship clubs!

I’ll have a bet with you that this will not be bettered on every poin - not just one or two points but every point - by any heartland clubs in the next 3 licence applications from the Championship. Name your price and we’ll arrange a place to hold the cash until 2018 and then donate it to the charity of choice of the one who is right.