Re: Will you be sticking with Denis Betts for 2012 ? : Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:36 pm  

I think J20 you are right. Denis Betts was very well respected at Gloucester and I think he will do a good job at Widnes given a little more time.

We did have an coach from the Antipodes once --- Happy Frank Endacott -- who did not inspire the club that much.

Widnes have had two bad games which they can now hopefully put behind them, and they can they play the kind of Rugby we know that this squad can. If we can play Gareth Haggerty and Danny Sculthorpe in the same 17 I would be very happy.

And we still have some very good youngsters coming through the ranks and with Mullalley coming back into the squad from his lessons in Australia I can see us being quite good enough to nullify some of the comments from a couple of moronic Wire Drawers.

Re: Will you be sticking with Denis Betts for 2012 ? : Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:02 pm  

Old Viking wrote:

I think J20 you are right. Denis Betts was very well respected at Gloucester and I think he will do a good job at Widnes given a little more time.

We did have an coach from the Antipodes once --- Happy Frank Endacott -- who did not inspire the club that much.

Widnes have had two bad games which they can now hopefully put behind them, and they can they play the kind of Rugby we know that this squad can. If we can play Gareth Haggerty and Danny Sculthorpe in the same 17 I would be very happy.

And we still have some very good youngsters coming through the ranks and with Mullalley coming back into the squad from his lessons in Australia I can see us being quite good enough to nullify some of the comments from a couple of moronic Wire Drawers.

He wasn’t an Aussie. He was a New Zealander, like Graeme West. We’ve never had an Australian coach.

Re: Will you be sticking with Denis Betts for 2012 ? : Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:08 pm  

Pepe wrote:

He wasn’t an Aussie. He was a New Zealander, like Graeme West. We’ve never had an Australian coach.

He never said he was

Re: Will you be sticking with Denis Betts for 2012 ? : Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:40 pm  

J20 wrote:

He never said he was

Yes, but it seemed to be in direct reply to my assertion that we’ve never had an Aussie coach. I know full well that we’ve had an antipodean coach. As I have already pointed out, we’ve had two (both of which were New Zealanders). He also seemed to implying that, because ‘Happy Frank’ (a New Zealander) was rubbish, there’s no point in bothering with an Aussie.

It was a weird sort of ambiguous and meaningless comment. I never said that we hadn’t had an antipodean coach, did I? Because ‘Happy Frank’ (a New Zealander) was poop, does that mean an Aussie would be? If not, then why make a point of it? Take a look at the most successful SL clubs lately. The majority have had an Aussie coach at the helm.

I think the point about young English coaches, put forward by the original poster, was valid. He put forward several examples and explained why any decision to appoint one is a bigger risk than appointing a more experienced coach, particularly one from the best RL competition in the world.

Re: Will you be sticking with Denis Betts for 2012 ? : Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:46 pm  

Pepe, why do you not admit that you are trying to wriggle out of saying something stupid. We have never had an Australian coach. Got it?

We have had Antipodean Coaches. Got it.

I don't want any more Antipodean Coaches.

Come to think of it I am not bothered about having an Australian coach, either.

Betts will do for me.

Enjoy the game tomorrow.

Re: Will you be sticking with Denis Betts for 2012 ? : Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:54 pm  

Old Viking wrote:

Pepe, why do you not admit that you are trying to wriggle out of saying something stupid.

Eh?

What might this stupid thing be, from which I am attempting to wiggle?

Old Viking wrote:

We have never had an Australian coach. Got it?

Yes, but then I always did. It was me that first mentioned this fact, if you remember?

It seems to be you that is confused about the meaning of the words Australian, New Zealander and antipodean and the distinction thereof.

Old Viking wrote:

We have had Antipodean Coaches. Got it.

See above.

Old Viking wrote:

I don't want any more Antipodean Coaches. Come to think of it I am not bothered about having an Australian coach, either.

OK. I don’t have problem with that. Just the ridiculous assumption that because we’ve had two New Zealand coaches, who have flopped, then it’s not worth bringing in an Aussie coach either because they are antipodean too.

Old Viking wrote:

Betts will do for me.

I think it’s a bit early to decide one way or another. I personally just want what is best for Widnes in the long run, and won't base my opinion on some silly bias.

Old Viking wrote:

Enjoy the game tomorrow

Of course.

What have you got against having an Aussie coach anyway?

The majority of clubs that have won SL grand Finals had Aussies in charge and our two failures in NL1 Grand Finals were against clubs with Aussie coaches, while we had a crap English coach.

Re: Will you be sticking with Denis Betts for 2012 ? : Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:51 am  

Pepe, you are taking this very seriously. There is a time to stop digging a hole for yourself, as the more you dig the deeper it gets.

To start off, you said that Widnes has never had an Australian coach. Fact.

I said that Widnes had had an Antipodean coach. Fact.

The fact that the two coaches who were not British did not do that well does not mean that an Australian coach would not do that well, either. There were no implications in what was said, no hidden meanings.

I do not want an Australian Coach for the very simple reason that I think that Aussie coaches and even those from the Antipodes, have brought it some things that I feel that we do not want in the British game, lying on in the tackle etc, and I think that we have pandered to the Australian style of play by introducing the non-competitive scrum and not allowing players to play he ball to themselves.

What we do need is another South African Forward.

Re: Will you be sticking with Denis Betts for 2012 ? : Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:12 am  

Old Viking wrote:

Pepe, you are taking this very seriously. There is a time to stop digging a hole for yourself, as the more you dig the deeper it gets.

To start off, you said that Widnes has never had an Australian coach. Fact.

I said that Widnes had had an Antipodean coach. Fact.

The fact that the two coaches who were not British did not do that well does not mean that an Australian coach would not do that well, either. There were no implications in what was said, no hidden meanings.

I do not want an Australian Coach for the very simple reason that I think that Aussie coaches and even those from the Antipodes, have brought it some things that I feel that we do not want in the British game, lying on in the tackle etc, and I think that we have pandered to the Australian style of play by introducing the non-competitive scrum and not allowing players to play he ball to themselves.

What we do need is another South African Forward.

You’re the one who’s digging yourself into a hole, in trying to justify a statement which you now admit was as totally meaningless as I asserted in my reply to it.

Australian coaches cannot change the rules on their own. This is something only the governing body, in conjunction with clubs, referees, players and coaches can influence. Whether we like it, or not, the game over here mirrors the game in Australia. At the end of the day the sport requires continuity, otherwise we could not have an international scene and World Club Challenges would be pointless. We need to be playing the sport exactly the same way for that to work. Having SL full of English coaches wouldn’t change this in any way.

I want what is best for Widnes. If that means that the coach is an English or an Aussie, it matters little. But all evidence points to requiring an Aussie coach if you want to be successful. We have to be pragmatic. We can’t afford to live in a fantasy world of idealism. That sort of nonsense would kill us. This is not the 1950's anymore!

Re: Will you be sticking with Denis Betts for 2012 ? : Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:05 am  

I made a factual statement.

You tried to read something into it.

If I had wanted to state that antipodean coaches were rubbish, I would have done. I didn't.

And I do know the difference between Australia, New Zealand and Tasmania, which together form the Antipodes.

I am also aware of the date, the decade, and the century.

I have now ended this discussion and your pointless nitpicking.

Re: Will you be sticking with Denis Betts for 2012 ? : Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:30 pm  

Hello Peter.