Re: Pre-season. : Mon Feb 05, 2024 4:47 pm  

fosdyke99 wrote:

repeat what ive said before,we have not replaced cliifford.havent a recognised 7 on the books.brown is a 9.dont think trueman is answer either.we should have paid carlos off,waste of a quota spot.we need a recognised 7,also forewards look a bit better,but we still need another big second rower.

I agree with your comments.
We are now playing with no recognised half backs a front row at 13 and a very poor threequarter line.
That said we should not be conceding 40 points in a pre season friendly and getting nilled
Trueman is no world beater so we shouldnt be banking on him to change the team dramatically at half back when he is fit.It was obvious last season he had lost his pace since his injury which was a major part of his game.
Hoy is not a half back and Walker is a much better full back so i just wonder what Smith will do with him.Just because he is an Aussie import shouldnt be a pass for playing him if he is not cutting it on the field.
He has some pace which we need but cant think of any other position we could utilise his pace as he is not big enough for a centre but maybe try him on the wing in place of McIntosh and change the way we bring the ball out from the back on that wing.
Playing Cator at nine is just bemusing and like i said several weeks ago we will still be playing Championship level players like McIntosh,Cator,Lane and Fash in our 17.
London apart none of those players would get a regular place in other S/L clubs first 17.
There are some encouraging signs from the new forwards but imagine if we lost Pele and Essee for a long period with injury we would be in real trouble.
Hate to say this but i would rather see Brown at nine and play Houghton at 13

Re: Pre-season. : Mon Feb 05, 2024 5:29 pm  

Marcus's Bicycle wrote:

All I want from this season is a steady improvement. In truth with the squad we have assembled I cannot see us finishing in the top 6. We have to be realistic. If we are at least competing for a play off place come the final rounds it will be progress.

Quite obviously Wigan and Saints will almost certainly be in the six. For London I reckon the aim will be to win at least two or three games and not suffer the embarrassment of going pointless all year, which could happen.
The remaining nine all have varying chances of grabbing a play-off place, although Salford and Cas look even weaker than us.

It's not impossible for us to sneak into the top-six, but it will need an awful lot of things to fall in our favour for it to happen.
This squad will need to reach somewhere near its maximum potential limit (and stay virtually injury free all year), added to that we would probably need two or three of the other mid-table trundlers to underperform and therefore open up those 5th/6th spots for someone unexpected to nab.

It has happened before when a side has taken everyone by surprise and over-performs to elbow their way into the mix (seem to recall Widnes doing it one year?), so we aren't completely without hope!

But realistically, it's difficult to put a case for us being in the play-offs come September, all things being equal. We simply don't look strong enough, with a lack of both quality and squad depth being major hinderances to any serious challenges.
I'm just going to take it week by week and see how the season pans out and, like you, hope to see at least some signs that some progress is being made in the right direction.

Re: Pre-season. : Mon Feb 05, 2024 9:18 pm  

BP1 wrote:

Quite obviously Wigan and Saints will almost certainly be in the six. For London I reckon the aim will be to win at least two or three games and not suffer the embarrassment of going pointless all year, which could happen.
The remaining nine all have varying chances of grabbing a play-off place, although Salford and Cas look even weaker than us.

It's not impossible for us to sneak into the top-six, but it will need an awful lot of things to fall in our favour for it to happen.
This squad will need to reach somewhere near its maximum potential limit (and stay virtually injury free all year), added to that we would probably need two or three of the other mid-table trundlers to underperform and therefore open up those 5th/6th spots for someone unexpected to nab.

It has happened before when a side has taken everyone by surprise and over-performs to elbow their way into the mix (seem to recall Widnes doing it one year?), so we aren't completely without hope!

But realistically, it's difficult to put a case for us being in the play-offs come September, all things being equal. We simply don't look strong enough, with a lack of both quality and squad depth being major hinderances to any serious challenges.
I'm just going to take it week by week and see how the season pans out and, like you, hope to see at least some signs that some progress is being made in the right direction.

Good post and I couldn't really put it better myself its all about trying to identify some signs of progress but when you part with players like Swift and have to see players like Clifford move on it's effectively two steps back and big boots to fill, before we even make any steps forward. Looking at our squad it's thin and still containing some players from last season that many have big question marks over. Hoping that some of our junior players can sustain anything like Super League form week in week out during times of injury is a massive ask and quite unrealistic, fixture wise it's a relentless and gruelling schedule that can just grind you down..

We've invested in our passes again many of us like me through our undying love of our club rather than with much hope of success, because that's what we do, however we have to be realistic and there are just too many 'if's' around the quality and depth of our squad and the most important part of any club the spine is in chaos and quite frankly it shows.

I hear all the excuses (pre season games don't count, too much chopping and changing, injuries etc etc) but to be nilled in any game is an embarrassment and in this one Wigan themselves made. a load of changes too. We should have at least crossed once but we didn't nor did we look like doing it if we'd played till six O'Clock.

You have to build a team behind a dominant pack but having just that wins few games if any. you can hold out and muscle it out for a half or so but then you have to be able to cut loose, play wide and stretch teams width and their mental strength. As I said in an earlier post we just have to get behind a coach (who, because of our financial situation is working with one hand tied behind his back), and look for progress, but unlike in the past that is hampered by a difficult market place and a lack of cash available to sign players to inspire the squad and the fans.

There are so many concerns around the squad and although our hope is our main motivation, its hard to see much more than total effort and passion across a season during which we try to weld together a team, identify what we still need and try and get it for next season. As long as the effort and desire is there it will go a long way with us lot. And who knows, as was said above we might sneek into the 6 but that will be it and that will only happen if we keep injuries to a minimum and as I said earlier in this thread its going to be another long and bumpy season. Its a good job we love em!!!

Re: Pre-season. : Tue Feb 06, 2024 2:09 am  

bonaire wrote:

I agree with your comments.
We are now playing with no recognised half backs a front row at 13 and a very poor threequarter line.
That said we should not be conceding 40 points in a pre season friendly and getting nilled
Trueman is no world beater so we shouldnt be banking on him to change the team dramatically at half back when he is fit.It was obvious last season he had lost his pace since his injury which was a major part of his game.
Hoy is not a half back and Walker is a much better full back so i just wonder what Smith will do with him.Just because he is an Aussie import shouldnt be a pass for playing him if he is not cutting it on the field.
He has some pace which we need but cant think of any other position we could utilise his pace as he is not big enough for a centre but maybe try him on the wing in place of McIntosh and change the way we bring the ball out from the back on that wing.
Playing Cator at nine is just bemusing and like i said several weeks ago we will still be playing Championship level players like McIntosh,Cator,Lane and Fash in our 17.
London apart none of those players would get a regular place in other S/L clubs first 17.
There are some encouraging signs from the new forwards but imagine if we lost Pele and Essee for a long period with injury we would be in real trouble.
Hate to say this but i would rather see Brown at nine and play Houghton at 13

The prop at 13 thing could be an even bigger issue if Walker is going to play full back. I like Walker but he's more of an old school, support playing 1 rather than a pivot. Walker at 1 and Fash at 13 would cause me to worry about where our creativity would come from, and puts an awful lot of pressure on Hoy and Brown (or whoever gets the nod in the halves).

Re: Pre-season. : Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:10 am  

The spine (1,6 and 7) will take time to gel, bet there isn't another SL team that will start the season with three new players in those positions.

Re: Pre-season. : Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:12 am  

Dave K. wrote:

The spine (1,6 and 7) will take time to gel, bet there isn't another SL team that will start the season with three new players in those positions.

Leeds

Re: Pre-season. : Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:37 am  

mwindass wrote:

Leeds

Good spot that, also a new 9.

Be intresting to see what Smith does, but I do agree with a few posters we need more at 13 than just drive, think we have enough good forward from our props, someone with some short of ball handling skills. I'd go with this first game

Walker
Martin
Carlos
Sutcliffe
Martin
Hoy
Brown
Ese'ese
Houghton
Fash
Okunbor
Ashworth
J Brown

Smith
Sao
Pele
Gardiner

Fully expect Cator to be in the 17.

Feel Jack Brown has a bit more ball handling skills.

Other option would be

6 Hoy
7 Smith
13 F Brown

Not sure Balmforth is fully fit.

Re: Pre-season. : Tue Feb 06, 2024 8:53 am  

Dave K. wrote:

Good spot that, also a new 9.

Be intresting to see what Smith does, but I do agree with a few posters we need more at 13 than just drive, think we have enough good forward from our props, someone with some short of ball handling skills. I'd go with this first game

Walker
Martin
Carlos
Sutcliffe
Martin
Hoy
Brown
Ese'ese
Houghton
Fash
Okunbor
Ashworth
J Brown

Smith
Sao
Pele
Gardiner

Fully expect Cator to be in the 17.

Feel Jack Brown has a bit more ball handling skills.

Other option would be

6 Hoy
7 Smith
13 F Brown

Not sure Balmforth is fully fit.

Martin’s going to be busy playing both wings?

Re: Pre-season. : Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:05 am  

Armavinit wrote:

Martin’s going to be busy playing both wings?

I manage to that everytime

Just can't face writing Mcintosh, but he's our best option unless they go with Scott.

Re: Pre-season. : Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:40 am  

mwindass wrote:

Leeds

You only have to read the Leeds forum and see what they are saying after the Rovers game, how having a quality 6,7 and 9 has made a massive difference.

We have a full back at 6, hooker at 7, an ageing 9 and a loose forward as our interchage 9.