Re: Wigan home : Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:10 am  

I take your points Barham Red. I think how your own club is performing colours how you feel about the game generally.

With Hull it’s always jam tomorrow and it’s wearing thin. Being sent into the off season watching an awful Hull side being beaten by a really poor Wigan one (how are they fourth?!) won’t fill many with enthusiasm.

Re: Wigan home : Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:23 am  

Irregular Hoops wrote:

I take your points Barham Red. I think how your own club is performing colours how you feel about the game generally.

With Hull it’s always jam tomorrow and it’s wearing thin. Being sent into the off season watching an awful Hull side being beaten by a really poor Wigan one (how are they fourth?!) won’t fill many with enthusiasm.

I agree with the top point, was talking about the live games I've seen. The other games in general i feel have been quite drab with the odd exception (cats at magic).
I actually thought Hull were nailed on to beat Wigan this week, last home game, sell the passes for next year against a Wigan team who can't seem to buy a try. Surprised that it sounded such a low intensity affair

[Chris71]

Re: Wigan home : Mon Sep 13, 2021 12:00 pm  

Irregular Hoops wrote:

Keiththered wrote:

I take your point on the whole. I think you overestimate the value of crowd side though in the definition of a big club. On that basis Newcastle would be considered a big Premiere League side. I don’t think so. For some reason as with FC they attract large crowds, for their sport but achieve very little in the league.

Totally agree with the Newcastle comparison. I’d use the same one. Potential never fully realised.
Chelsea will now be considered a big club, even though it’s purely down to money.
Historically though, clubs like Newcastle, Everton and Villa would have d been classed as being bigger clubs.


The comparison in Super League is Warrington. They’re lucky enough to have rich owners, but I wouldn’t class them as a big club. Rovers are bigger than Warrington , and that was the case when you were in a league below them.
They just happen to be cash rich at this moment in time, and therefore classed as a bigger club than what they actually are.

I think it would be fair to say that in terms of RL both Hull & Rovers are in the category of what would be viewed as bigger clubs and both have underachieved since the glory days of both clubs. Rovers are seemingly on the up but when you actually brush away a lot of the factors of the current season, I would say it would only be a fool that would state Rovers are now the force of RL in the area. They have improved and done well of that there is no doubt but you also have to look at the rest of the league as Cats, St's and to an extent Warrington apart just about every other team ourselves included have been poor. I don't think its any coincidence that the stop/start nature of games and training being called off have affected most teams, some have faired better in dealing with that than others.

Heading in to next season with less chance of covid related interuptions I can not see the likes of Wigan, Leeds, Huddersfield, Wakefield, Castleford or ourselves being as poor.

Lets be honest here I can not see past Catalan and St's contesting the GF such is the poor standard this season.

We are hamstrung by the poor retention and recruitment which needs addressing if possible this close season if AP & BH can make some small changes in the squad for next season then we should an improvement. I do feel that a big statement of intent and that this seasons performances won't be tolerated next season by possibly being able to release Fonua (finances allowing etc) but if that can't be done then I am sure some strategic changes can be made now BH knows what he has to deal with.

Re: Wigan home : Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:05 pm  

Chris71 wrote:

I think it would be fair to say that in terms of RL both Hull & Rovers are in the category of what would be viewed as bigger clubs and both have underachieved since the glory days of both clubs. Rovers are seemingly on the up but when you actually brush away a lot of the factors of the current season, I would say it would only be a fool that would state Rovers are now the force of RL in the area. They have improved and done well of that there is no doubt but you also have to look at the rest of the league as Cats, St's and to an extent Warrington apart just about every other team ourselves included have been poor. I don't think its any coincidence that the stop/start nature of games and training being called off have affected most teams, some have faired better in dealing with that than others.

Heading in to next season with less chance of covid related interuptions I can not see the likes of Wigan, Leeds, Huddersfield, Wakefield, Castleford or ourselves being as poor.

Lets be honest here I can not see past Catalan and St's contesting the GF such is the poor standard this season.

We are hamstrung by the poor retention and recruitment which needs addressing if possible this close season if AP & BH can make some small changes in the squad for next season then we should an improvement. I do feel that a big statement of intent and that this seasons performances won't be tolerated next season by possibly being able to release Fonua (finances allowing etc) but if that can't be done then I am sure some strategic changes can be made now BH knows what he has to deal with.

Dont think we will see small changes i think we will see some major changes
You also have to laugh at all these HKR fans who think their club is a force in R/L because they may make the top 6.
As badly as we have been playing we beat them recently and the scoreline would have been much more comfortable had Thaler not disallowed two tries given as tries by the referee.
Its quite possible HKR may not make the six and even though they have a good signing in Coote i can see them at the lower end of Super League next season

Re: Wigan home : Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:27 pm  

barham red wrote:

I agree with the top point, was talking about the live games I've seen. The other games in general i feel have been quite drab with the odd exception (cats at magic).
I actually thought Hull were nailed on to beat Wigan this week, last home game, sell the passes for next year against a Wigan team who can't seem to buy a try. Surprised that it sounded such a low intensity affair

That was the worrying thing for me. I’m sure the players were told a big performance was needed, to try and encourage people to renew memberships. They offered nothing.
Hastings apart, there wasn’t much quality on show at all.

There is a distinct lack of quality in Super League, and it’s falling every year.
Like I say, the fact Wigan are fourth says it all for me.

Re: Wigan home : Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:29 pm  

bonaire wrote:

Dont think we will see small changes i think we will see some major changes
You also have to laugh at all these HKR fans who think their club is a force in R/L because they may make the top 6.
As badly as we have been playing we beat them recently and the scoreline would have been much more comfortable had Thaler not disallowed two tries given as tries by the referee.
Its quite possible HKR may not make the six and even though they have a good signing in Coote i can see them at the lower end of Super League next season

Major changes? I would be interested to hear where you think they might be made. Mr Pearson has been concerned about the financial future of the club and because of existing contracts it’s difficult to see major changes without paying people off.

I don’t think we are yet a force in RL yet but are moving in the right direction which is more than can be said for FC. One win in your last nine matches must be more of a reflection on your team’s present standing than a one point win in the derby. We all know that at derby time anything can happen and it frequently happens that the side expected to win cannot manage it. No, we may not make the six but at least we still have a chance. We have been playing an open, expansive, exciting style of rugby that has been recognised by most people. Obviously we wouldn’t get any credit from some biased FC fans. FC have scored 397 in 20 matches we have scored 485 in 19. I think TS as a coach has had a positive effect on our team and will continue to do so. He improved Hudds, Rhinos and Wire and there is no reason to think he will not work his magic with us. BH has I accept had an effect on the FC team, just not the one you wanted. He does not have a record to suggest he might be able to turn things around.

No one can predict the future with any certainty for either of our clubs but as things stand today I think Rovers fans can go into the offseason with more optimism about 2022. Only time will tell.

Re: Wigan home : Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:37 pm  

Keiththered wrote:

Major changes? I would be interested to hear where you think they might be made. Mr Pearson has been concerned about the financial future of the club and because of existing contracts it’s difficult to see major changes without paying people off.

I don’t think we are yet a force in RL yet but are moving in the right direction which is more than can be said for FC. One win in your last nine matches must be more of a reflection on your team’s present standing than a one point win in the derby. We all know that at derby time anything can happen and it frequently happens that the side expected to win cannot manage it. No, we may not make the six but at least we still have a chance. We have been playing an open, expansive, exciting style of rugby that has been recognised by most people. Obviously we wouldn’t get any credit from some biased FC fans. FC have scored 397 in 20 matches we have scored 485 in 19. I think TS as a coach has had a positive effect on our team and will continue to do so. He improved Hudds, Rhinos and Wire and there is no reason to think he will not work his magic with us. BH has I accept had an effect on the FC team, just not the one you wanted. He does not have a record to suggest he might be able to turn things around.

No one can predict the future with any certainty for either of our clubs but as things stand today I think Rovers fans can go into the offseason with more optimism about 2022. Only time will tell.

Not just talking about the playing roster but that has to change and i am expecting several surprises.
Optimism is fine but at best you will finish 6th this season and even though i like Tony Smith as a coach i still predict HKR will finish at the lower end of S/L next season

Re: Wigan home : Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:05 pm  

bonaire wrote:

Not just talking about the playing roster but that has to change and i am expecting several surprises.
Optimism is fine but at best you will finish 6th this season and even though i like Tony Smith as a coach i still predict HKR will finish at the lower end of S/L next season

What exactly are you talking about? You only seem to waffle in generalities. In which areas are the changes going to happen. How is Mr Pearson going to make room for signings that will improve an underperforming squad? Where will the money come from. If you are not just talking about the playing roster what back room changes are to take place?

Maybe everything will be a surprise to you and you have no basis for your assertions. Nothing new then as I’m sure this season was a surprise. Looking at recent years’ league results you are probably always surprised. Before the start of each season some FC fans, including you I suspect, expect that year to be the year.
Each season ends in disappointment.

We may finish 5/6/7 but even our worst scenario is better that your eighth.

[Chris71]

Re: Wigan home : Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:51 pm  

Keiththered wrote:

What exactly are you talking about? You only seem to waffle in generalities. In which areas are the changes going to happen. How is Mr Pearson going to make room for signings that will improve an underperforming squad? Where will the money come from. If you are not just talking about the playing roster what back room changes are to take place?

Maybe everything will be a surprise to you and you have no basis for your assertions. Nothing new then as I’m sure this season was a surprise. Looking at recent years’ league results you are probably always surprised. Before the start of each season some FC fans, including you I suspect, expect that year to be the year.
Each season ends in disappointment.

We may finish 5/6/7 but even our worst scenario is better that your eighth.

All this in a season that has quite literally been a lottery due to the unbalanced fixtures. As for calling somebody for waffling you are doing some of this yourself to an extent. I think it would be a fair assessment to say had the fixtures all been played equally then you could judge the success or failure with some form of reliable basis but this season is just not possible. Yes we have not done as well as had been hoped however there are mitigating circumstances for that as with all clubs some have faired or handled it better. I also think it’s fair to say had we as a club been able to play the fixtures we had cancelled and not played the fixtures when we could have avoided them i dare say the situation would be different.

It’s been a very poor season due to the impact across SL of the postponement of fixtures leaving a totally unbalanced league table.

On BH he started well and we saw changes/improvements that we’d needed in defence. He was unfortunate that he was unable to make many changes due to both contracts but also the covid situation. Tony Smith has been at Rovers a good length to have moulded the team and make changes to the playing squad.

Next season there’s a number of clubs with points to prove and hopefully a league where all fixtures can be fulfilled so that will be a better guide as to where teams are at in real terms.

Re: Wigan home : Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:03 pm  

Chris71 wrote:

All this in a season that has quite literally been a lottery due to the unbalanced fixtures. As for calling somebody for waffling you are doing some of this yourself to an extent. I think it would be a fair assessment to say had the fixtures all been played equally then you could judge the success or failure with some form of reliable basis but this season is just not possible. Yes we have not done as well as had been hoped however there are mitigating circumstances for that as with all clubs some have faired or handled it better. I also think it’s fair to say had we as a club been able to play the fixtures we had cancelled and not played the fixtures when we could have avoided them i dare say the situation would be different.

It’s been a very poor season due to the impact across SL of the postponement of fixtures leaving a totally unbalanced league table.

On BH he started well and we saw changes/improvements that we’d needed in defence. He was unfortunate that he was unable to make many changes due to both contracts but also the covid situation. Tony Smith has been at Rovers a good length to have moulded the team and make changes to the playing squad.

Next season there’s a number of clubs with points to prove and hopefully a league where all fixtures can be fulfilled so that will be a better guide as to where teams are at in real terms.

I agree but you cannot get away from eight defeats out of nine matches is very poor. Covid, not playing everyone twice is continually referred to by teams not doing well. It was the same for everyone. It is often mentioned that we played Leigh three times by fans wanting to disparage our achievements. However they fail to mention that we also played Cats three times, the only team to do so.

Yes BH did start well but the sign of a good coach is how you deal with adversity.