Re: Forward available? : Sat May 08, 2021 8:48 am  

Lawler has gone from hero to zero In about 2 weeks.

Called up for the England knights,,Rovers fans saying he really deserves it, has played great and they need to build a team around him to an average player who isnt really a loss.

He has been great for them for years and loyal as he easily could have left.

Re: Forward available? : Sun May 09, 2021 5:24 am  

Yesterday is probably why Lawler wants to leave Rovers, he wants to play in big games for a club like Hull or Cas he could have easily sat in a comfort zone earning good money for Rovers, but he is probably fed up with winning the odd game and celebrating gallant loses.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Forward available? : Sun May 09, 2021 10:28 am  

Dave K. wrote:

Yesterday is probably why Lawler wants to leave Rovers, he wants to play in big games for a club like Hull or Cas he could have easily sat in a comfort zone earning good money for Rovers, but he is probably fed up with winning the odd game and celebrating gallant loses.

It may very well be part of it.

The flawed thinking that has gripped the club about losing now to win later has probably been more disheartening than the losing itself at times.

This, from Moneyball, resonated with me.

Of course, no one in pro sports ever admits to quitting. But it was perfectly possible to abandon all hope of winning and at the same time show up every day for work to collect a paycheck. Professional sports had a word for this: “rebuilding”. That’s what half a dozen big league teams did more or less all the time. The Kansas City Royals had been rebuilding for the last four or five years. Bud Selig’s Brewers had been taking a dive for at least a decade.

There are differences between MLB and SL, and I’m not suggesting individuals have behaved unprofessionally or didn’t try. But a malaise set in at an organisational level. Patience (aka acceptance of losing) is definitely a virtue that can be taken to far, even for club with limited resources.

I think the leadership at Rovers might now be awake to this. But if not, stuff like this will highlight it.

Or maybe his partner has just got a good job in Manchester or something.

Re: Forward available? : Sun May 09, 2021 11:04 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

It may very well be part of it.

The flawed thinking that has gripped the club about losing now to win later has probably been more disheartening than the losing itself at times.

This, from Moneyball, resonated with me.

Of course, no one in pro sports ever admits to quitting. But it was perfectly possible to abandon all hope of winning and at the same time show up every day for work to collect a paycheck. Professional sports had a word for this: “rebuilding”. That’s what half a dozen big league teams did more or less all the time. The Kansas City Royals had been rebuilding for the last four or five years. Bud Selig’s Brewers had been taking a dive for at least a decade.

There are differences between MLB and SL, and I’m not suggesting individuals have behaved unprofessionally or didn’t try. But a malaise set in at an organisational level. Patience (aka acceptance of losing) is definitely a virtue that can be taken to far, even for club with limited resources.

I think the leadership at Rovers might now be awake to this. But if not, stuff like this will highlight it.

Or maybe his partner has just got a good job in Manchester or something.

A good summary and the ‘Moneyball’ book and film do challenge the traditional approach to running sports teams.

I agree too many clubs sack a manager or have a takeover and then commence a project or process to take their club ‘back where they belong.’ If all were successful in football, they’d be about 50 teams in the Premier League. No club has a given right to be anywhere other than their current league position.

Along with recruitment, the role of the Coach is also pivotal and can make such a difference. It’s still early days with Brett, but he’s only made one signing (Grub), but we are already seeing a material change in our attitude, work rate and defence.
Previously, we had Brian Smith transform an indifferent Hull side and turn players like Andy Dannatt and Paul Eastwood from average club players into Internationals. So sometimes it is buying the right player, but also getting players to apply themselves correctly.

With Rovers, they seem to have changed approach several times under NH. They created a good team under Justin Morgan, but have just drifted since. Their squad strategy changed, they had some quality players, then went for less quality but more strength in depth and said they are now aiming to go for a smaller squad with more quality. They’ve also become a plucky loser team. One short kick off last season on Sky propelled them to innovators with an expansive game, which ultimately ended in defeat.

With regards Watson, it will be interesting to see how he goes at Huddersfield . They are showing signs of imprioving, they ran Saints close the other night. However, he has openly stated that they are on a ‘process journey’. This will result in either him being an astute appointment, or a failed 2-3 year tenure, only to be replaced with another transition period.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Forward available? : Sun May 09, 2021 3:07 pm  

Rugby Raider wrote:

I agree too many clubs sack a manager or have a takeover and then commence a project or process to take their club ‘back where they belong.’ If all were successful in football, they’d be about 50 teams in the Premier League. No club has a given right to be anywhere other than their current league position.

Yep, not everyone can succeed, but everyone can aspire. What has been hard for me sometimes is to remember that Neil Hudgell, Jamie Peacock and I imagine Bud Selig did aspire to success. They genuinely believed in their patient rebuilds, and didn’t anticipate the extent to which others would say it was worthy and the right thing to do and want no part of it themselves.

Rugby Raider wrote:

With Rovers, they seem to have changed approach several times under NH. They created a good team under Justin Morgan, but have just drifted since. Their squad strategy changed, they had some quality players, then went for less quality but more strength in depth and said they are now aiming to go for a smaller squad with more quality. They’ve also become a plucky loser team. One short kick off last season on Sky propelled them to innovators with an expansive game, which ultimately ended in defeat.

True enough. Over 15+ years you’re bound to see changes in approach and given limited resources the club has to prioritise rather than being strong across the board. But I think there’s been a tendency (in the past, rather than now hopefully) to decide what ‘we’ want the solution to be and work backwards from that, rather than rationally analysing where value could be found. Neil Hudgell grew tired with it a while ago and although I’m sure Mike Smith was a competent, hard-working administrator and fine servant to the club but he wasn’t the strategic vision guy. Hopefully, from my perspective, Paul Lakin and Tony Smith can change perceptions of the club, including that plucky loser opponent tag. Or at very least try in a way I can believe might work.

Re: Forward available? : Sun May 09, 2021 3:42 pm  

Thought I read Satae OOC somewhere - is that right?

Re: Forward available? : Sun May 09, 2021 3:44 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote: Thought I read Satae OOC somewhere - is that right? We've got an option for another year. viewtopic.php?f=34&t=608437&p=19118218#p18928894

Mrs Barista wrote: Thought I read Satae OOC somewhere - is that right? We've got an option for another year. viewtopic.php?f=34&t=608437&p=19118218#p18928894

Re: Forward available? : Sun May 09, 2021 3:53 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote:

Thought I read Satae OOC somewhere - is that right?

Looks happy and settled to me as does Ligi Sao so i dont think there will be a problem with these two been with us next season

Re: Forward available? : Sun May 09, 2021 5:16 pm  

bonaire wrote:

Looks happy and settled to me as does Ligi Sao so i dont think there will be a problem with these two been with us next season

I don't think we can be over confident. Forwards in short supply so market might be competitive as Lawler is finding with 4 clubs in for him.

[Chris71]

Re: Forward available? : Sun May 09, 2021 5:51 pm  

Mrs Barista wrote:

bonaire wrote:

Looks happy and settled to me as does Ligi Sao so i dont think there will be a problem with these two been with us next season

I don't think we can be over confident. Forwards in short supply so market might be competitive as Lawler is finding with 4 clubs in for him.

Whilst nothing is ever certain until contracts are signed (even then not always the case) I think Bonaire makes a very valid point about both Sao & Satae looking happy and enjoying the game. The togetherness and team spirit that certainly seems very evident under BH can not be underestimated and it’s something that they seem to hold in high regard.

I also believe as a club we are moving forward and that they would very much want to continue to be a part of that.