RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
22 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Academy Prospects
Re: Academy Prospects Fri May 28, 2021 5:37 pm  

R.B.A wrote:
R.B.A 100% League Network
100% League Network

Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:02 pm
Posts: 3998
BoothferryBoy wrote:
Any academy is only as good as the talent they have to work with.
The real issue is the actual number of young people playing the game.
We are constantly being told that Hull is a hot bed for RL yet my experience from watching my son progress from the age of 6 to open age does not tally with that image.
At the age of 6 to 8 there where about 10 teams in total in Hull, Beverley and Holderness. By the age of 14 that was down to 4 teams with the odd friendly against one club who couldn't regularly raise a team.
That's a maximum of 90 to 100 boys playing the game at that particular age group. I would suggest if we want to create an Australian style conveyor belt of talent then we desperately need to increase the playing pool. 100 boys is hardly enough to feed one SL club let alone two.
The RFL and SL clubs themselves have to share some blame for this. The community game for as long as I can remember has been financially on its knees with little or no help from either SL or the RFL, either financial or the promotion of this great game.
The game at this level survives because of parents and volunteers.

It also has to be said that the behaviour of my club and HKR to wards these young people is scandalous. From a pool of around 100 boys they are going to have pick a significant number just to create a team, many of which I would respectfully suggest have little or no hope of ever becoming a full time professional RL player. They are persuaded for the clubs own selfish reasons to go down the academy road and chase an unrealistic dream. At 18 the inevitable happens and they are released missing out on an Apprenticeship or University. Disillusioned they are usually lost to the game.

Perhaps efforts should be channelled into creating greater participation numbers and an academy system that allows the vast majority of the young men to also carve out a career outside RL.



With all due respect, you don't appear to know what you are talking about.

There are people on these boards who will know the figures better than me but I do know that participation us up in our region. Up by 40% rings a bell. Certainly I've never known a time when we have only had 4 under 14s sides.

When players join Academies they either stay in full time education to work towards a qualification that allows them to go to university or they undertake an apprenticeship. They don't just train a few times a week and spend the rest of their time on their X box.
"Dream Big..Work Hard".................. Sarah Storey, Paralympic Legend.
Re: Academy Prospects Fri May 28, 2021 8:01 pm  

Rover52 wrote:
Rover52 Stevo's Armpit

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:30 pm
Posts: 44
BoothferryBoy wrote:
Any academy is only as good as the talent they have to work with.
The real issue is the actual number of young people playing the game.
We are constantly being told that Hull is a hot bed for RL yet my experience from watching my son progress from the age of 6 to open age does not tally with that image.
At the age of 6 to 8 there where about 10 teams in total in Hull, Beverley and Holderness. By the age of 14 that was down to 4 teams with the odd friendly against one club who couldn't regularly raise a team.
That's a maximum of 90 to 100 boys playing the game at that particular age group. I would suggest if we want to create an Australian style conveyor belt of talent then we desperately need to increase the playing pool. 100 boys is hardly enough to feed one SL club let alone two.
The RFL and SL clubs themselves have to share some blame for this. The community game for as long as I can remember has been financially on its knees with little or no help from either SL or the RFL, either financial or the promotion of this great game.
The game at this level survives because of parents and volunteers.

It also has to be said that the behaviour of my club and HKR to wards these young people is scandalous. From a pool of around 100 boys they are going to have pick a significant number just to create a team, many of which I would respectfully suggest have little or no hope of ever becoming a full time professional RL player. They are persuaded for the clubs own selfish reasons to go down the academy road and chase an unrealistic dream. At 18 the inevitable happens and they are released missing out on an Apprenticeship or University. Disillusioned they are usually lost to the game.

Perhaps efforts should be channelled into creating greater participation numbers and an academy system that allows the vast majority of the young men to also carve out a career outside RL.


Wow that comment is exactly right on the money, Hull is not a hot bed for rugby, both K.R and F.C.
In the last 10 years the teams have produced 10 players that have made it in the game
Re: Academy Prospects Fri May 28, 2021 8:07 pm  

Rover52 wrote:
Rover52 Stevo's Armpit

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:30 pm
Posts: 44
[list=] :o [/list]
supersport wrote:
dont think watts played for cas academy, he was a featherstone lions junior and came to kr at 16, stand to be corrected


That in stone is fine , however he did come to Rovers as a fresh faces teen who NEVER played a game for Cas academy.


Watts learnt his trade at Rovers so he really is a Rovers home grown as was Tom Briscoe with ylou
Re: Academy Prospects Fri May 28, 2021 8:10 pm  

Rover52 wrote:
Rover52 Stevo's Armpit

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:30 pm
Posts: 44
Rover52 wrote:
[list=] :o [/list]That in stone is fine , however he did come to Rovers as a fresh faces teen who NEVER played a game for Cas academy.


Watts learnt his trade at Rovers so he really is a Rovers home grown as was Tom Briscoe with ylou


Ben Crooks, born in Pontefract yet FC academy trained

We could go round all day on this subject
Re: Academy Prospects Fri May 28, 2021 9:19 pm  

R.B.A wrote:
R.B.A 100% League Network
100% League Network

Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:02 pm
Posts: 3998
Rover52 wrote:
[list=] :o [/list]That in stone is fine , however he did come to Rovers as a fresh faces teen who NEVER played a game for Cas academy.


Watts learnt his trade at Rovers so he really is a Rovers home grown as was Tom Briscoe with ylou




Watts had made his first team debut for Cas before he joined Rovers. He was only 17 though and then played a year in our Academy in 2008.
"Dream Big..Work Hard".................. Sarah Storey, Paralympic Legend.
Re: Academy Prospects Sat May 29, 2021 11:37 am  

User avatarMild Rover wrote:
Mild Rover User avatar
100% League Network
100% League Network

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 11958
Location: Leicestershire.
Mrs Barista wrote:
Interesting to hear Ralph Rimmer tonight on the length of time the process has been underway (3 years) and seems that the primary aim is quality of academies rather than quantity of participants. And that currently academies aren't delivering high enough quality so can't continue to just do what's historically been done. I guess time will tell whether the decisions will deliver.


TLDR summary: no, it wasn’t, the decision changes almost nothing for the better but the decision itself will probably be changed, imo.

Rimmer didn’t hide or hang the panel out to dry, and deserves a degree of credit for that. Equally, he had no metaphorical shield and was noticeably keen to highlight how much of the responsibility for the process lay with other stakeholders. He didn’t seem desperately keen to own the decision, and I don’t think ‘time will tell’, because I’d expect it (the decision, not the concept of time [although I am looking forward to Loki on Disney+]) to be changed. The RFL, I would guess, will now be pretty passive in letting the Sport Resolutions appeals play out, making changes likely, imo. It won’t necessarily be to Rovers’ benefit, but between them the most disappointed clubs have a lot to go at.

I was going to call Rimmer’s arguments specious but I just checked the definition and I don’t think they are even superficially plausible. The 3-year process reflects understandable delays relating to the pandemic rather than the panel having read the submissions cover to cover (Castleford’s was apparently 2000 pages... wtf? No wonder the panel was unsympathetic to them). The ‘haven’t beaten Australia in a series in ages’ argument (Brian Carney has at least beaten them in a game, which itself now feels a bit like being reminded that Aberdeen once upon a time beat Real Madrid in a major European football final), and we have to do things differently is nonsense. We don’t beat Australia for the very broadly the same reasons English football managers haven’t won the English league for nearly 30 years - the last two that did were both called Howard, for goodness sake and only Tottenham caretaker Ryan Mason finished in the top half of the PL this year - it is numbers and culture.

Side note: going back a bit further, Englishman Bob Paisley must be among the most underrated managers in sports history.
Side note to side note: I recommend the Bob Emergency sports documentary by Jon Bois.

Back on the academy decision. This isn’t, and in fairness was never intended to be, about reform. It is exactly the same system, but with slightly fewer/different participants. The leap from this to materially improving our chances against Australia, even as one small piece of the jigsaw, is ludicrous. Rimmer can’t say it, but if it is about saving money (which is in very short supply) or increasing participation in the Southeast and Northeast that at least makes some sort of sense.

What has been interesting has been the suggestions about real reform that have emerged through the furore. Terry O’Connor fell into the Jamie Peacock trap of extrapolating from his personal experience, but I agree with him about scholarships so I’ll forgive that - and I know it resonates with normal people. :)

For me, the whole system is way too SL club-centric with a strange sense of ownership and competition. I mean, the proposal of a draft for graduates of the COHA - that didn’t seem weird to people? Or some of the reaction when somebody like George Lawler chooses to seek professional opportunities elsewhere, or the hype around Harry Tyson-Wilson, Reece Dean, Callum Lancaster, Jack Logan et al. before they’d really reached adulthood (for balance, I recall seeing Steven Holker compared to one of Rovers’ all-time greats after a couple of games off the bench and Rovers were bigging up the youngsters in their system in the HDM ahead of this decision), or the quietness about the progress of Jez Litten and Joe Cator that I’m now anticipating in light of the panel’s scoring methods?
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Re: Academy Prospects Sat May 29, 2021 4:43 pm  

User avatarMrs Barista wrote:
Mrs Barista User avatar
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:28 am
Posts: 28502
Location: West Yorkshire
Wouldn't surprise me if 2 appealing clubs were successful. To all intents and purposes preserving the status quo which is so productive.
Re: Academy Prospects Sat May 29, 2021 6:29 pm  

User avatarMild Rover wrote:
Mild Rover User avatar
100% League Network
100% League Network

Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 11958
Location: Leicestershire.
Me either.

To be fair, I don’t think this was really about changing the status quo beyond giving London and Newcastle a bit more resource, which isn’t a terrible idea in theory. I think Rimmer was just flailing about for something to say and ‘change can be good... let’s beat Australia!’ was was came out. This is why torture shouldn’t be used in interrogation - people will say anything to make it stop.

The tensions around the governance structure of the sport remain problematic and that isn’t solely the RFL’s fault, imo. For somebody like Rimmer, or Elstone in his SL role, the pay is decent enough but you’re expected to do a lot with very little power and a gaggle of club owners squabbling in the background.
'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.
Re: Academy Prospects Fri Jun 04, 2021 4:01 pm  

R.B.A wrote:
R.B.A 100% League Network
100% League Network

Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:02 pm
Posts: 3998
Common sense prevails. Great news for rugby league, particularly grass roots, in this city.

The almost universal support from Hull FC fans for Rovers cause has been heartening. You aren't a bad lot really.
"Dream Big..Work Hard".................. Sarah Storey, Paralympic Legend.
Re: Academy Prospects Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:36 pm  

ccs wrote:
ccs Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:58 pm
Posts: 4991
R.B.A wrote:
Common sense prevails. Great news for rugby league, particularly grass roots, in this city.

The almost universal support from Hull FC fans for Rovers cause has been heartening. You aren't a bad lot really.

Don't get me wrong, I think the news makes all the sense in the world, but wasn't the underlining decision based on "trawling for fish", when, inevitably, in some areas, stocks would simply dry up?
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Boardwalkempire3, ComeOnYouUll, Dave K., edinburgh yorkie, K-Diddy, McFc, old faith full, Paddyfc, Plum Bob, weighman and 180 guests

Quick Reply



Subject:
Message:

   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.

Return to Hull FC - blackandwhites.co.uk


POSTSONLINEMEMBERSRECORDTEAM
5,183,9601,65578,6729,567LOGIN
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.
When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
YOU HAVE RL CHAT OFF
RLFANS Match Centre
Sun 25th Jul
CH
LIVE
Sheffield28-40Halifax
CH
LIVE
Batley42-12Newcastle
CH
LIVE
Bradford30-36Featherstone
CH
LIVE
Whitehaven28-24Oldham
CH
LIVE
York46-10Swinton
L1
LIVE
Barrow40-12Coventry
L1
LIVE
Hunslet20-20Keighley
WSL
LIVE
YorkW0-0Hudds W
NRL
LIVE
St.George10-32Gold Coast
NRL
LIVE
Canterbury24-44Cronulla
Sat 24th Jul
NRL RND: 19 Souths60-22NZ Warriors
NRL RND: 19 Manly44-24Wests
NRL RND: 19 Penrith18-12Brisbane
L1 RND: 12 LondonS46-30West Wales
SL RND: 13 Catalans32-30Hull KR
Fri 23rd Jul
NRL RND: 19 Sydney28-8Newcastle
NRL RND: 19 NQL Cowboys16-20Melbourne
SL RND: 15 Leeds38-16Salford
SLRND: 15 Wigan25-12Wakefield
Thu 22nd Jul
NRL RND: 19 Parramatta10-12Canberra
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
National Rugby League 2021 ROUND : 18
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Melbourne 17 632 198 434 30
Penrith 17 493 179 314 30
Souths 17 503 346 157 28
Parramatta 17 474 255 219 26
Sydney 17 453 335 118 22
Manly 17 485 354 131 20
St.George 17 358 382 -24 16
Cronulla 17 326 394 -68 14
 
Canberra 17 347 421 -74 14
Newcastle 17 283 420 -137 14
Gold Coast 17 394 468 -74 12
Wests 17 372 502 -130 12
NQL Cowboys 17 324 527 -203 12
NZ Warriors 17 333 426 -93 10
Brisbane 17 282 542 -260 8
Canterbury 17 212 522 -310 4
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Super League XXVI ROUND : 15
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Catalans 14 419 226 193 26 185.40 92.86
St.Helens 12 286 96 190 20 297.92 83.33
Warrington 13 408 213 195 19 191.55 73.08
Wigan 15 247 268 -21 20 92.16 66.67
Hull FC 12 286 215 71 15 133.02 62.50
Hull KR 11 271 244 27 12 111.07 54.55
 
Leeds 14 332 251 81 14 132.27 50
Castleford 14 251 354 -103 12 70.90 42.86
Salford 14 237 405 -168 8 58.52 28.57
Huddersfield 15 244 318 -74 8 76.73 26.67
Wakefield 15 259 354 -95 8 73.16 26.67
Leigh 13 212 508 -296 0 41.73 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Championship 2021 ROUND : 14
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Toulouse 9 433 88 345 18 492.05 100
Featherstone 13 573 166 407 26 345.18 100
Halifax 14 398 199 199 20 200 71.43
Bradford 13 354 315 39 18 112.38 69.23
LondonB 13 374 337 37 17 110.98 65.38
Batley 14 370 286 84 18 129.37 64.29
 
Widnes 13 307 344 -37 11 89.24 42.31
Newcastle 13 284 400 -116 11 71 42.31
Sheffield 14 313 413 -100 11 75.79 39.29
Whitehaven 14 277 396 -119 11 69.95 39.29
York 14 345 327 18 10 105.50 35.71
Dewsbury 13 197 379 -182 9 51.98 34.62
Oldham 13 190 470 -280 4 40.43 15.38
Swinton 14 234 529 -295 0 44.23 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred League One 2021 ROUND : 10
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Barrow 10 342 150 192 17 228 85
Workington 9 334 158 176 15 211.39 83.33
Doncaster 9 308 189 119 14 162.96 77.78
Keighley 10 348 239 109 10 145.61 50
Rochdale 10 279 280 -1 10 99.64 50
Crusaders 10 278 318 -40 10 87.42 50
 
Coventry 8 204 240 -36 8 85 50
Hunslet 10 268 257 11 8 104.28 40
LondonS 8 154 292 -138 2 52.74 12.50
West Wales 10 122 514 -392 0 23.74 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Womens Super League 2021 ROUND : 9
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
LeedsW 7 364 38 326 14 957.89 100
St.HelensW 7 370 36 334 12 1,027.78 85.71
WiganW 6 222 64 158 10 346.88 83.33
YorkW 6 186 102 84 8 182.35 66.67
CastlefordW 6 166 96 70 8 172.92 66.67
BradfordW 8 158 264 -106 6 59.85 37.50
 
Hudds W 7 104 288 -184 4 36.11 28.57
Wire W 8 150 334 -184 4 44.91 25
FeatherstoneW 8 122 338 -216 4 36.09 25
WakefieldW 7 50 332 -282 0 15.06 0
RLFANS Recent Posts




X