Re: More rumours! : Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:54 pm  

Whilst i appreciate what Dowes has done for the club through the years i do think the time has come for him to move on, if Adam Pearson is intent on delivering a top 4 team then we need to bring in a better class of prop than Dowes, we already have Radford who is a grafting type forward, i would like us to sign a big powerful forward and promote one of the younger forwards into the 1st team squad.

Re: More rumours! : Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:59 pm  

Neville Bartos wrote:

Broken plenty of tackles this year.

Out of interest, who would you try to sign as a replacement?

I alway's find that type of question irrelevent? why? because i'm not aware of Ewan's contract so what's the point of me naming random names but i'd rather give a young player a chance then this plodding no skills small prop forward another contract.

So on that basis back to the current point, Dowes is an average prop forward who would definately not get into any of the current top 4's 17 and like AP has stated he expects top 4 next year.

Re: More rumours! : Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:02 pm  

VerbalKint wrote:

What a load of old balony, and there in lies one of the reasons we arnt a top 4 side and light years from being one, the guy wouldnt get within a miliion miles of Wigan / Saints / Wire squads. Hopefully AP will see sense and offload,

Prop is not a position that we're weak in though is it? Our weakest areas of the current squad are the halfs and the riht flank, one of which has hopefully been addressed, and we'll need a centre if Gleeson leaves.

We have to be realistic and remember that there's a salary cap to be adhered to, and we can't have four top class props. Don't forget that Wigan have Ben Cross coming off their bench at the moment, Leeds have people Ian Kirke. Hudds & Wigan have brought through some very good young players (Mossop/Patrick).

Dowsey is a 4th prop, and a fourth prop's job is to relieve the top props (Moa/O'Meley) for when they need a break. I'd love to have Moa/O'Meley on thepitch for 80minutes and not need Dowes atall.

As I said, prop is not a pivotal position nor one we should be prioritising to strengthen. The dominant Saints team used to have Mike Bennett in their 17 each week, 3-times GF winners Leeds had props like Burgess/Kirke. You can still be a top 4 team / winning team without four awesome props.

If he does go I won't be too bothered, I'm just trying to be realistic about the situation. We're not going to bring in a world class prop as a replacement, it'll be someone like O'Carroll (as has been rumoured).

Re: More rumours! : Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:11 pm  

Neville Bartos wrote:

Prop is not a position that we're weak in though is it? Our weakest areas of the current squad are the halfs and the riht flank, one of which has hopefully been addressed, and we'll need a centre if Gleeson leaves.

We have to be realistic and remember that there's a salary cap to be adhered to, and we can't have four top class props. Don't forget that Wigan have Ben Cross coming off their bench at the moment, Leeds have people Ian Kirke. Hudds & Wigan have brought through some very good young players (Mossop/Patrick).

Dowsey is a 4th prop, and a fourth prop's job is to relieve the top props (Moa/O'Meley) for when they need a break. I'd love to have Moa/O'Meley on thepitch for 80minutes and not need Dowes atall.

As I said, prop is not a pivotal position nor one we should be prioritising to strengthen. The dominant Saints team used to have Mike Bennett in their 17 each week, 3-times GF winners Leeds had props like Burgess/Kirke. You can still be a top 4 team / winning team without four awesome props.

If he does go I won't be too bothered, I'm just trying to be realistic about the situation. We're not going to bring in a world class prop as a replacement, it'll be someone like O'Carroll (as has been rumoured).

Exactly, was just about to post something similar to this.

It's always said that X player wouldn't get into Wigan/Saints etc team, but how many of theirs wouldn't get into ours?

I could probably name 5 or 6 players from each team that wouldn't get in to our team when fit. This is because of the salary cap.

Obviously if all 4 props were like Dowes we'd have a problem, but they aren't, so to keep him for 1 more year until our props are actually ready isn't the end of the world.

Re: More rumours! : Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:15 pm  

I'd rather us release Dowes, and another backrower (ie Burnett or Washbrook),
and pay a fee as AP has indicated he would do,
for the likes of a Tom Burgess or Paul Johnson, and then give more game time
for Green,Kent or Cunningham.

Re: More rumours! : Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:17 pm  

It's simple matter of economics, who will be cheaper, Dowes or his replacement (O'Carroll)?

I'd snap up Paul Johnson in a flash though.

Re: More rumours! : Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:24 pm  

Goochie wrote:

Exactly, was just about to post something similar to this.

It's always said that X player wouldn't get into Wigan/Saints etc team, but how many of theirs wouldn't get into ours?

I could probably name 5 or 6 players from each team that wouldn't get in to our team when fit. This is because of the salary cap.

Obviously if all 4 props were like Dowes we'd have a problem, but they aren't, so to keep him for 1 more year until our props are actually ready isn't the end of the world.

Exactly. He's replaceable certainly, but we shouldn't expect to replace him with a world beater, and even if we do, it wouldn't take us much futher to getting into the top4 - there are bigger priorities

Our weaknesses at the moment are 7, backup hooker, our makeshift right side and the clown of a coach. Two of those four weaknesses have been addressed and I'd hope the other two are sorted out way before signing a 4th prop.

Re: More rumours! : Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:28 pm  

TKOAH wrote:

It's simple matter of economics, who will be cheaper, Dowes or his replacement (O'Carroll)?

I'd snap up Paul Johnson in a flash though.

Exactly, as the guy below said, there are bigger priorities in our side at the moment.

Not sure I'd pay a fee for Johnson, he started the season really well but seems his performances have dropped recently. I really like the look of Kyle Amor on loan at Wakey, if we had the chance to get him in I'd take that though.

Re: More rumours! : Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:04 pm  

Johnson wouldn't be a bad signing for any team . If there was a chance then we should go for him.

Re: More rumours! : Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:27 pm  

Neville Bartos wrote:

Prop is not a position that we're weak in though is it? Our weakest areas of the current squad are the halfs and the riht flank, one of which has hopefully been addressed, and we'll need a centre if Gleeson leaves.

We have to be realistic and remember that there's a salary cap to be adhered to, and we can't have four top class props. Don't forget that Wigan have Ben Cross coming off their bench at the moment, Leeds have people Ian Kirke. Hudds & Wigan have brought through some very good young players (Mossop/Patrick).

Dowsey is a 4th prop, and a fourth prop's job is to relieve the top props (Moa/O'Meley) for when they need a break. I'd love to have Moa/O'Meley on thepitch for 80minutes and not need Dowes atall.

As I said, prop is not a pivotal position nor one we should be prioritising to strengthen. The dominant Saints team used to have Mike Bennett in their 17 each week, 3-times GF winners Leeds had props like Burgess/Kirke. You can still be a top 4 team / winning team without four awesome props.

If he does go I won't be too bothered, I'm just trying to be realistic about the situation. We're not going to bring in a world class prop as a replacement, it'll be someone like O'Carroll (as has been rumoured).

I'm surprised at your sugestion that we are ok for props. There has been a lot of comment on this board in recent months about the need to sign at least one new prop. Our two best props are O'Meley and Moa with Dowes and Radford as back up. Fitz and Lauaki are going. I know there has been talk of switching Tickle to prop but IMO we need to sign at least one prop and two if Dowes is released.