[Chris71]

Re: Smith - should he stay or should he go? : Tue Apr 09, 2024 10:22 am  

Milky121086 wrote:

Care to elaborate? How is it rubbish whats your counter argument? Can you honestly say we would be any higher? are we better than Salford? Huddersfield? Leeds? Leigh? NO! So therefore we are were we should be given the roster available to us. You could argue with every single player fit we could push for maybe top 8 but that's about it. and before you say it i am not saying the performances couldn't be better, of course they could but realistically the results would be the same, i cant think of one game we have lost this year that we could have won even playing to our full potential can you?

Its the level of performance or rather the total lack of it in just about every aspect of our play that is the biggest issue for me under Smiths tenure. I don't think anyone would argue that with the current squad we aren't likely to climb up the table no matter who the coach is or isn't but under Smith we have gone even further backwards since Hodgson. At least with Hodgson we saw some glimpses of promise but under Smith I've seen nothing whatsoever other than a continual slide in standards, effort, performance etc, we no longer have peaks and troughs in performances just all are now in the trough bracket.

That for me is what is unacceptable more than defeats.

Re: Smith - should he stay or should he go? : Tue Apr 09, 2024 10:46 am  

Thing is under Hodgson we still had a few players with undoubted class ones that could lift the rest (when they could be ar*ed) all be it infrequently. They have gone and never been replaced like for like so we are left with the rest bumping along at a low level of performance totally inept but totally consistently poor. We have to replace Sneyd, Griffin, Manu Ma'u, Taylor, Swift and Satae with at least players as good as them before we even get back there again. How many of them have we honestly replaced? Sobering thought really.

[Chris71]

Re: Smith - should he stay or should he go? : Tue Apr 09, 2024 11:31 am  

The Dentist Wilf wrote:

Thing is under Hodgson we still had a few players with undoubted class ones that could lift the rest (when they could be ar*ed) all be it infrequently. They have gone and never been replaced like for like so we are left with the rest bumping along at a low level of performance totally inept but totally consistently poor. We have to replace Sneyd, Griffin, Manu Ma'u, Taylor, Swift and Satae with at least players as good as them before we even get back there again. How many of them have we honestly replaced? Sobering thought really.

I think even she would fail to provide a lift

Re: Smith - should he stay or should he go? : Tue Apr 09, 2024 11:42 am  

Milky121086 wrote:

Care to elaborate? How is it rubbish whats your counter argument? Can you honestly say we would be any higher? are we better than Salford? Huddersfield? Leeds? Leigh? NO! So therefore we are were we should be given the roster available to us. You could argue with every single player fit we could push for maybe top 8 but that's about it. and before you say it i am not saying the performances couldn't be better, of course they could but realistically the results would be the same, i cant think of one game we have lost this year that we could have won even playing to our full potential can you?

For all that we have played awfully in every game, we have had blips of good play. If we maintained these very brief blips up for the whole game, we would have challenged and probably won some games. This is obviously a massive if, but that was the point of your post - if they all played to the best of their ability we wouldn’t have done any better. This, in my humble opinion, is a load of tosh.

Our biggest problem for years has been inconsistency - last year we beat Leeds, Wigan, Rovers, Warrington and Saints. But also got trounced on multiple occasions. This year they haven’t shown anywhere near those efforts. If they did, we’d have had results.

Re: Smith - should he stay or should he go? : Tue Apr 09, 2024 12:17 pm  

Chris71 wrote:

Its the level of performance or rather the total lack of it in just about every aspect of our play that is the biggest issue for me under Smiths tenure. I don't think anyone would argue that with the current squad we aren't likely to climb up the table no matter who the coach is or isn't but under Smith we have gone even further backwards since Hodgson. At least with Hodgson we saw some glimpses of promise but under Smith I've seen nothing whatsoever other than a continual slide in standards, effort, performance etc, we no longer have peaks and troughs in performances just all are now in the trough bracket.

That for me is what is unacceptable more than defeats.

I think its unfair to say its worse then Hodgson, since 2018 we have had losing runs of at least 7 or more. Four head coaches have failed yet 10 players from that era remain, no youngsters with real talent has come through the door.

All ive seen is the playing squad get worse and this is being reflected on the pitch. Hodgson had a far bigger salary cap then Smith to play with.

Results should be better, but I dont buy all this its the coaches job to motivate the team bullcrap. They are professionals and should have the correct attitude from the off. My boss doesnt need to tell me how to do my job. The attitude of the players has stunk for years, long before Smith. If Smith goes then the next guy should be allowed to pay off the players who continue to fail.

Whether we like it or not we are not an attractive club for any player at the moment, the amount of players who have rejected comining here is frightening. Ive heard from reliable source that we are well scraping the barrel when it comes to recruitment, nobody wants to be here.

Such a toxic enviroment at the moment and I thought Pearson was blind to even think appointing a coach like Tony Smith would solve the issue. Its far far deeper then that, the only way we will get better players is to climb up the table and pay over the odds for players to come here.

Its a very dark situation, ive never known such discontent from the club and the supporter base. They is no unity here and hasnt being for a long while. In my opinoin the only way that will change is by change at the very top.

Re: Smith - should he stay or should he go? : Tue Apr 09, 2024 12:22 pm  

tommyfromhull wrote:

For all that we have played awfully in every game, we have had blips of good play. If we maintained these very brief blips up for the whole game, we would have challenged and probably won some games. This is obviously a massive if, but that was the point of your post - if they all played to the best of their ability we wouldn’t have done any better. This, in my humble opinion, is a load of tosh.

Our biggest problem for years has been inconsistency - last year we beat Leeds, Wigan, Rovers, Warrington and Saints. But also got trounced on multiple occasions. This year they haven’t shown anywhere near those efforts. If they did, we’d have had results.

I get what your saying but i respectfully disagree, again like i said already even if we played to full potential i genuinely don't think any of the results would have changed, there's so far been two games where you could say that at some stage we was in the arm wrestle of the game (Catalans and Wire away) we played really well in both games but you still get the feel both of the opposition could have gone up another gear if they had to. All other games have been blow outs where we wasn't even close to challenging, Leigh brought a weakened team yet even if we played at 100% potential they would have still beat us, too fast, too clever in the halves the list goes on...

[Chris71]

Re: Smith - should he stay or should he go? : Tue Apr 09, 2024 12:49 pm  

pmarrow wrote:

I think its unfair to say its worse then Hodgson, since 2018 we have had losing runs of at least 7 or more. Four head coaches have failed yet 10 players from that era remain, no youngsters with real talent has come through the door.

All ive seen is the playing squad get worse and this is being reflected on the pitch. Hodgson had a far bigger salary cap then Smith to play with.

Results should be better, but I dont buy all this its the coaches job to motivate the team bullcrap. They are professionals and should have the correct attitude from the off. My boss doesnt need to tell me how to do my job. The attitude of the players has stunk for years, long before Smith. If Smith goes then the next guy should be allowed to pay off the players who continue to fail.

Whether we like it or not we are not an attractive club for any player at the moment, the amount of players who have rejected comining here is frightening. Ive heard from reliable source that we are well scraping the barrel when it comes to recruitment, nobody wants to be here.

Such a toxic enviroment at the moment and I thought Pearson was blind to even think appointing a coach like Tony Smith would solve the issue. Its far far deeper then that, the only way we will get better players is to climb up the table and pay over the odds for players to come here.

Its a very dark situation, ive never known such discontent from the club and the supporter base. They is no unity here and hasnt being for a long while. In my opinoin the only way that will change is by change at the very top.

I don't think its unfair to say we are worse under Smith than under Hodgson. Yes we have a poorer squad and clearly a smaller budget to play with than Hodgsons tenure. However that is just excusing the failings and failure of the current coaching staff to instil aspects of the game where budget and ability don't have any real impact such as discipline. It's difficult to argue that our discipline on the field isn't worse than ever surely and that is something that Smith has had 2 preseasons to sort out. We aren't talking about a coach that's inexperienced either which just makes the lack of any improvement in the basics even more alarming.

I agree the players should be doing better but much like any environment if the Coach/Manager can not get their staff to carry out the instructions given or motivate them then they are the ones that carry the can for that failure and its not like he's only been at the club a coupe of weeks either.

The standard of the squad I agree is a reason why results in terms of losses are like they are however it does not excuse the poor performances which without beating around the bush are verging on pathetic. We've had teams that in terms of ability and talent have been poorer or similar and whilst we suffered losses there was effort and pride in the performances that they put in and you could see the structures in place. For me I see none of this at all under Smith just more and more issues and toxicity.

To say its not down to Smith and pin it on the poor squad and budget is for me ignoring the issue that we look like a very poorly coached team, with no structure, no accountability and no pride.

[Chris71]

Re: Smith - should he stay or should he go? : Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:01 pm  

Milky121086 wrote:

I get what your saying but i respectfully disagree, again like i said already even if we played to full potential i genuinely don't think any of the results would have changed, there's so far been two games where you could say that at some stage we was in the arm wrestle of the game (Catalans and Wire away) we played really well in both games but you still get the feel both of the opposition could have gone up another gear if they had to. All other games have been blow outs where we wasn't even close to challenging, Leigh brought a weakened team yet even if we played at 100% potential they would have still beat us, too fast, too clever in the halves the list goes on...

Very few would argue with the bit in bold but its not the results or lack of them it is the sheer scale of the poor performances that are now common place. I wouldn't even say they've downed tools as it looks like they are unable to even pick them up to start with. They are clearly are not prepared well enough nor ready to start a game as again the performances so far show.

Re: Smith - should he stay or should he go? : Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:03 pm  

Chris71 wrote:

I don't think its unfair to say we are worse under Smith than under Hodgson. Yes we have a poorer squad and clearly a smaller budget to play with than Hodgsons tenure. However that is just excusing the failings and failure of the current coaching staff to instil aspects of the game where budget and ability don't have any real impact such as discipline. It's difficult to argue that our discipline on the field isn't worse than ever surely and that is something that Smith has had 2 preseasons to sort out. We aren't talking about a coach that's inexperienced either which just makes the lack of any improvement in the basics even more alarming.

I agree the players should be doing better but much like any environment if the Coach/Manager can not get their staff to carry out the instructions given or motivate them then they are the ones that carry the can for that failure and its not like he's only been at the club a coupe of weeks either.

The standard of the squad is a reason why results in terms of losses are like they are however it does not excuse the poor performances which without beating around the bush are verging on pathetic. We've had teams that in terms of ability and talent have been poorer or similar and whilst we suffered losses there was effort and pride in the performances that they put in and you could see the structures in place. For me I see none of this at all under Smith just more and more issues and toxicity.

This is the worse SL squad we have ever assembled, it was lazy to appoint Smith and think he would improve us without the resources like he has everywhere else he has being. I dont get why Pearson has given the likes of Radford an open cheque book and Smith the worst Salary Cap budget since his tenure as owner.

Im not saying things shouldnt be better but to think we was any better under hodgson is quite frankly ridiculous in my view. The sane stuff happened and the same tonkings and losing runs happened.

Smith has turned up any trees here but I dont think he is being given the right tools either, the job is obviousley alot bigger then we all thought.

You can say the coach must carry the can but 4 head coaches and same players says enough for me. They have to go and I reckon that most sane people wouldnt like a tonking every week. That is an attitude problem and the fact they turn up week after week producing those displays shows me they either arent upto it or do not have any passion or pride.

I dont believe for one second that Smith is telling them to be this poor. They literally get tonked and offer no response, that for me is on the players.

As I say the fact we are even having this discussion shows how toxic the club is.

Re: Smith - should he stay or should he go? : Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:42 pm  

so in a strange turn of events im currently in the middle of a conversation with Tex Hoys dad on Instagram direct messaging, hes saying some very very harsh things