Re: westerman : Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:48 am  

Mild mannered Janitor wrote:

Sam Tomkins is probably going to be the biggest earner in SL next season (I don't know this for fact, but on the basis that it was Wigan's idea for a marquee player solely to get ST back, its a reasonable shout).

The point is that we have a marquee player. No, I don't expect him to be the most expensive, but it will be hefty! If we can't afford one, we shouldn't sign one! You think Pearson isn't savvy enough to know whether we can afford it or not?

Mild mannered Janitor wrote:

Since June, corporates have distanced themselves, some season pass holders have voiced discontent, the SMC are playing hardball.....

Let's get one thing straight, the pressure the SMC is applying isn't financial. Allam's just trying to save himself money by strangling the life out of our club.
I fail to see how fan discontent and corporate 'distancing' can cost over £500k. Do you realise the amount of fans we'd have to lose to see that kind of reduction in revenue?
I can't understand how people who believe in Pearson can say how poor he is at forward planning! Because if all these things since June were unforeseen, that's what it indicates! Don't believe the hype.

My position is that I simply don't like the rhetoric Pearson is using. It's sensationalist and causes division at a time when we all need to pull in the same direction! (as evidenced by this very thread).

Re: westerman : Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:15 am  

Tinkerman23 wrote:

Good post, don't agree with much of it, but cant fault your reasoning's if that's what you truly believe

That's the beauty of these forums, each to their own opinion.

For the record, I have been a critic of Radfords coaching and I advocated he should have gone by Easter of 2015. Performances have been inconsistent to say the least. We were served up some dower stuff early in the season but then you had performances like the ones away at Warrington, the Magic weekend and home against Cas in the Cup which were great displays of open rugby.

Pearson has backed Radford to the hilt. Fair play to him, as i can see the disadvantage of changing your coach every season. There would be the constant echo of "I need to build my own team", which I always think is a poor excuse.

Well, Radford has has 2 full seasons to form a team of his making. He has sifted out the deadwood he was left with by MacRae etc, he has blooded many youth players who now have the foundations of experience in the top flight. 2016 is the time to deliver!

I want to attend games which have meaning and competitiveness. Something to get your heart pumping when you watch it. Not some end of season dead rubber.

Although I agree the coach is culpable, so are the player and the owner. To single out the coach would be grossly unfair in my opinion.

Re: westerman : Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:27 am  

*1865* wrote:

The point is that we have a marquee player. No, I don't expect him to be the most expensive, but it will be hefty! If we can't afford one, we shouldn't sign one! You think Pearson isn't savvy enough to know whether we can afford it or not?

Let's get one thing straight, the pressure the SMC is applying isn't financial. Allam's just trying to save himself money by strangling the life out of our club.
I fail to see how fan discontent and corporate 'distancing' can cost over £500k. Do you realise the amount of fans we'd have to lose to see that kind of reduction in revenue?
I can't understand how people who believe in Pearson can say how poor he is at forward planning! Because if all these things since June were unforeseen, that's what it indicates! Don't believe the hype.

My position is that I simply don't like the rhetoric Pearson is using. It's sensationalist and causes division at a time when we all need to pull in the same direction! (as evidenced by this very thread).

Bit of a double negative there, would you not agree? How else would Allam strangle the life out of the club if it were not financial.

Do you not agree that the closure of the ticket office on match days will not affect Hull FC financially?

Lets say season ticket sales drop to 6000 in total. That would represent a drop of around 2000. Based on a prudent price of £200 for a season ticket, there is £400k. It would not take many Corporate box / tables to not renew to get to your figure of £500k.

As has been pointed out, we have already lost around 4000 from our average gates of 2010. Id say any further significant loss of regular fan base would be a major problem for the club as a whole. I would not say losing 4000+ fans was being sensationalistic, more like being realistic.

Yet, as you point out, we still signed an expensive forward in Pritchard. Is this one last through of the dice by Pearson spending big on the playing squad in an attempt to attract fans and hopefully some success? I can see the guys concern when he puts his money at stake but the support dwindles.

Re: westerman : Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:50 am  

Mild mannered Janitor wrote:

I can see the guys concern when he puts his money at stake but the support dwindles.

The problem with Adam Pearson, is he's pouring funds into the wrong areas- IMO.

He still clearly feels signing a more higher calibre player,will gel a group of individuals into a team.

By his own admission,he stated "I've tried everything I can,to improve the club" - except for one thing - appoint a proven Head Coach with a decent coaching team.

The major issue,going forward is unless Pearson changes his attitude & policy, of not recognising the importance of the Coach and his assistants,things will not improve.

Also, the attitude, of hiring staff who dont 'get' Hull,
is basically ,in my opinion- is an poor excuse.

It's up to him to decide, if the applicant has the determination,desire to be successful - not his place of birth.

The way forward for this club -IMO, is sign an experienced Head Coach, not world class but proven at making a group of players into a cohesive team.

Re: westerman : Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:08 am  

weaver93 wrote:

The problem with Adam Pearson, is he's pouring funds into the wrong areas- IMO.

He still clearly feels signing a more higher calibre player,will gel a group of individuals into a team.

By his own admission,he stated "I've tried everything I can,to improve the club" - except for one thing - appoint a proven Head Coach with a decent coaching team.

The major issue,going forward is unless Pearson changes his attitude & policy, of not recognising the importance of the Coach and his assistants,things will not improve.

Also, the attitude, of hiring staff who dont 'get' Hull,
is basically ,in my opinion- is an poor excuse.

It's up to him to decide, if the applicant has the determination,desire to be successful - not his place of birth.

The way forward for this club -IMO, is sign an experienced Head Coach, not world class but proven at making a group of players into a cohesive team.

Cannot disagree with your view.

So, given Pearsons back of Radford, it would appear unlikely he will be sacked unless it goes badly wrong next season. Would you be in favour of another coach coming in to assist Radford (especially on the attacking side of things)? If so, who would be the likely candidates?

Re: westerman : Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:34 am  

Mild mannered Janitor wrote:

:CLAP:

Cannot disagree with your view.

So, given Pearsons back of Radford, it would appear unlikely he will be sacked unless it goes badly wrong next season. Would you be in favour of another coach coming in to assist Radford (especially on the attacking side of things)? If so, who would be the likely candidates?

I would...

Personally I rate Radford as a defensive coach, as an attack coach, someone like Pryce, Harris or Cooke etc, .

IF Pearson, really rates Radford or Horne, he needs to let them learn under a guy like Brian Smith.

I'm sure if Wakefield can afford Smith, we could.

Re: westerman : Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:46 am  

Mild mannered Janitor wrote:

Bit of a double negative there, would you not agree? How else would Allam strangle the life out of the club if it were not financial.

By making us unwelcome and seem like inferior tenants.

Mild mannered Janitor wrote:

Do you not agree that the closure of the ticket office on match days will not affect Hull FC financially?

It would be minimal at best, unless you have evidence that it has had a massive effect?

Mild mannered Janitor wrote:

Lets say season ticket sales drop to 6000 in total. That would represent a drop of around 2000. Based on a prudent price of £200 for a season ticket, there is £400k. It would not take many Corporate box / tables to not renew to get to your figure of £500k.

More scaremongering. That, quite simply, won't happen! Even Pearson himself has spoken about the 8,000 'hardcore' supporters. Was he wrong?

Mild mannered Janitor wrote:

As has been pointed out, we have already lost around 4000 from our average gates of 2010. Id say any further significant loss of regular fan base would be a major problem for the club as a whole. I would not say losing 4000+ fans was being sensationalistic, more like being realistic.

Gates across the game are down, and any material difference between us and other clubs is more likely due to the choices Pearson has made during his tenure. There has been a few mini recoveries this year, but again i'd ask the question why we aren't one of them!

Mild mannered Janitor wrote:

Yet, as you point out, we still signed an expensive forward in Pritchard. Is this one last through of the dice by Pearson spending big on the playing squad in an attempt to attract fans and hopefully some success? I can see the guys concern when he puts his money at stake but the support dwindles.

[/quote][/quote]

I've no issue with Pearson regarding his investment, but he is scrimping in probably the most important area - coaching! I'm still very much in the pro Radford camp, but he's got far too much to do. He himself may not want help, but that's probably more down to his own stubbornness. He needs an assistant, it has to be someone from outside the club with fresh ideas, not people who have been a part of the failure for (almost) a decade.

Re: westerman : Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:54 am  

*1865* wrote:

I've no issue with Pearson regarding his investment, but he is scrimping in probably the most important area - coaching! I'm still very much in the pro Radford camp, but he's got far too much to do. He himself may not want help, but that's probably more down to his own stubbornness. He needs an assistant, it has to be someone from outside the club with fresh ideas, not people who have been a part of the failure for (almost) a decade.

Re: westerman : Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:55 am  

127 pages of morons banging on about their awful coach, and how much better they'd be without him. Apologies but about as relevant to the topic as anyone else is posting right now. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=500492 There is nothing wrong with Pearson, who is trying hard to be successful, or Radford. There IS something wrong with our relationship with the management of the stadium, and the self entitled attitude of many of our fans.

127 pages of morons banging on about their awful coach, and how much better they'd be without him. Apologies but about as relevant to the topic as anyone else is posting right now. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=500492 There is nothing wrong with Pearson, who is trying hard to be successful, or Radford. There IS something wrong with our relationship with the management of the stadium, and the self entitled attitude of many of our fans.

Re: westerman : Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:50 pm  

*1865* wrote:

By making us unwelcome and seem like inferior tenants.

It would be minimal at best, unless you have evidence that it has had a massive effect?

More scaremongering. That, quite simply, won't happen! Even Pearson himself has spoken about the 8,000 'hardcore' supporters. Was he wrong?

Gates across the game are down, and any material difference between us and other clubs is more likely due to the choices Pearson has made during his tenure. There has been a few mini recoveries this year, but again i'd ask the question why we aren't one of them!

[/quote]

I've no issue with Pearson regarding his investment, but he is scrimping in probably the most important area - coaching! I'm still very much in the pro Radford camp, but he's got far too much to do. He himself may not want help, but that's probably more down to his own stubbornness. He needs an assistant, it has to be someone from outside the club with fresh ideas, not people who have been a part of the failure for (almost) a decade.[/quote]

You said the SMC were not financial harming the club, now you say its minimal at best. So, you now agree its harms the club financially

You asked how many fans we would have to lose to fall £500k behind, I gave you the answer, being half as many as we have lost in recent seasons. Thats not scaremongering, thats just plain fact.