Re: Match tonight : Mon May 04, 2015 9:59 am  

easthull fc fan wrote:

Didn't LR bring the likes of shaul,lineham,Bowden, Hadley on in the youth set up about 4 years ago when he was head of u20s? Might I add Shaul & Hadley was never scholars & lineham was about to be binned off if gentle would have got his way, as we nearly signed another journeyman who's played for kr & crusaders, & greens from wakey or leeds.

Developing players isn't simply a case of giving them debuts. It starts when they are 13 or 14 years old (at least in terms of involvement of SL clubs). Most of the kids in the 19s who are so lauded now were already involved at the club when Gentle came in and certainly before Radford took charge. We won't really start seeing the benefit of Pearson's investment and the effect of the coaches for another couple of years yet. Radford and Gentle have played a part in their development of course. But a good player is a good player regardless. Who knows if this is simply a good batch or if it's down to improvements to the youth system?

Also, just because Radford says Gentle wanted to sign Youngquest (who knows how true that story is?) it doesn't mean Lineham was "about to be binned off." He might have just had to wait a few months longer for his chance. Oh and Green might have been born in Leeds (not entirely sure if that's even true), but I played with him as a kid, he's spent most of his life in Hull. He was playing for Skirlaugh when we picked him up.

Re: Match tonight : Mon May 04, 2015 1:20 pm  

Mr. Zucchini Head wrote:

Developing players isn't simply a case of giving them debuts. It starts when they are 13 or 14 years old (at least in terms of involvement of SL clubs). Most of the kids in the 19s who are so lauded now were already involved at the club when Gentle came in and certainly before Radford took charge. We won't really start seeing the benefit of Pearson's investment and the effect of the coaches for another couple of years yet. Radford and Gentle have played a part in their development of course. But a good player is a good player regardless. Who knows if this is simply a good batch or if it's down to improvements to the youth system?

Also, just because Radford says Gentle wanted to sign Youngquest (who knows how true that story is?) it doesn't mean Lineham was "about to be binned off." He might have just had to wait a few months longer for his chance. Oh and Green might have been born in Leeds (not entirely sure if that's even true), but I played with him as a kid, he's spent most of his life in Hull. He was playing for Skirlaugh when we picked him up.

We're did I say he gave them their debuts? & look the story up on youngquest Lineham said himself he was going to be binned, if you know green as you say you do you surely would know if he was born outside hull?

Re: Match tonight : Mon May 04, 2015 1:49 pm  

easthull fc fan wrote:

We're did I say he gave them their debuts? & look the story up on youngquest Lineham said himself he was going to be binned, if you know green as you say you do you surely would know if he was born outside hull?

I wasn't really referring to that direct point. All I'm trying to say is that we have a good batch of youngsters at u'19s level, but how much is that to do with the investment and the coaching and how much is it to do with it being simply a good batch? The mark of a good youth set up is when good players emerge year on year.

If Lineham has said that himself then fair enough. Although did Gentle want to bin off Lineham, or was it more a case of Gentle saying that Youngquest was available, and Radford saying we should try Lineham first? There is a difference.

As for Green. I'm not claiming to be big mates with him, hell I don't think I've spoken to him in about 10 years. I'm just saying he was playing at Cott Tigers when we were 8 or 9, so I know he's been in Hull most of his life. He was picked up late when he was playing for Skirlaugh age 19 or so.

Re: Match tonight : Mon May 04, 2015 2:13 pm  

Mr. Zucchini Head wrote:

I wasn't really referring to that direct point. All I'm trying to say is that we have a good batch of youngsters at u'19s level, but how much is that to do with the investment and the coaching and how much is it to do with it being simply a good batch? The mark of a good youth set up is when good players emerge year on year.

If Lineham has said that himself then fair enough. Although did Gentle want to bin off Lineham, or was it more a case of Gentle saying that Youngquest was available, and Radford saying we should try Lineham first? There is a difference.

As for Green. I'm not claiming to be big mates with him, hell I don't think I've spoken to him in about 10 years. I'm just saying he was playing at Cott Tigers when we were 8 or 9, so I know he's been in Hull most of his life. He was picked up late when he was playing for Skirlaugh age 19 or so.

I see your points, same with Hadley & Shaul they was picked up late, sometimes I think it's what positions the clubs are looking for, my lads team east hull u15s & west hull 15s are 2 of the best teams in the country for their age, but how many of them will make it, who knows? But the talents there early on we have a lot of good amateur teams in this town, so we should be between 2 SL clubs developing a lot more then what most clubs are.

Re: Match tonight : Mon May 04, 2015 2:15 pm  

Mr. Zucchini Head wrote:

I wasn't really referring to that direct point. All I'm trying to say is that we have a good batch of youngsters at u'19s level, but how much is that to do with the investment and the coaching and how much is it to do with it being simply a good batch? The mark of a good youth set up is when good players emerge year on year.

Most of the current bunch of 19's were part of the best 16's in the country 2 years ago and now we have a current crop of 16's potentially better than them (So i'm told). The job for Radford, Horne, Last & Wilson will be to nurture these two great groups of players, which is what they are, through to the first team. This has been an immense failing of both Hull clubs for years, the amount of talent that has been lost to the game by the age of 18 in this city is criminal. Of course a lot of these are life choices by the youngsters themselves, but its up to the clubs to educate them to make better choices and the most of their talent. This is were the set up at BB and the money Pearson has invested will pay dividends.

Re: Match tonight : Mon May 04, 2015 2:17 pm  

easthull fc fan wrote:

I see your points, same with Hadley & Shaul they was picked up late, sometimes I think it's what positions the clubs are looking for, my lads team east hull u15s & west hull 15s are 2 of the best teams in the country for their age, but how many of them will make it, who knows? But the talents there early on we have a lot of good amateur teams in this town, so we should be between 2 SL clubs developing a lot more then what most clubs are.

Players are picked up late because both clubs (Hull especially over the years) decide who they're taking by the time they're 14. They then stick with that group no matter what. Another failing that's hopefully being reversed.

Re: Match tonight : Mon May 04, 2015 4:29 pm  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

But you aren't a player and I guess you've never being an athlete in an elite situation or have had to perform multiple tasks in front of a live audience that is judging you at every moment? Your post is just inaccurate & wrong.

If a player needs vocal support from fans to somehow play better then there is something wrong! if you're listening to what's going on in the crowd you aren't focusing on your job 100%. And whilst in RL a player can turn to the crowd/hear the support that's at a down time. It actually has little if any effect on how a player then plays, you might have an instant feeling of being buoyed but when it gets down to the nitty gritty it means naff all, you don't hear the crowd/audience, you're concentrating on what's going on around you, focusing on what you're meant to be doing...or at least you should be!

Telling the fans they MUST actively show positive support because it will make us perform better is just inaccurate, as much as you and indeed athletes/players might think it does.
studies done in the US have shown that sports with vocal fans, teams often play better without the fans at all than with fans cheering (not that we've had much to cheer about this past 1.5 years anyway). The greatest effect is in fact when sportspersons are being boo'd or jeered, this has a negative effect on performance (So bullying tactics by coaches/parents DO NOT WORK)
Despite the evidence, both fans and athletes believe cheering/positive support helps, the hard facts show that it just doesn't.

That said getting fans to cheer/give vocal support when things aren't going well is a difficult thing to do, I'd say Hull fans have done more than most over the years but that effect is just primarily on the fans themselves. Of late the fans aren't cheering, they are so fed up with how things have gone backwards that it seems futile to even raise a rendition of 'old faithful'.

Fair enough if evidence is that it doesn't impact directly on performances on the day. However, there are some qualifiers.

One report showed that the density of support is important and home advantage is actually increased if the crowd is more densely concentrated. Which it obviously isn't at the KC, quite the opposite.

As you say, booing has a negative effect, and there have been pockets of this at both the last couple of home games. So rather than supporting, the crowd are detracting.

I think you're suggesting that silence/zero attendance would be as effective on impacting the team as having a packed vociferous crowd which may be true on matchday. But beyond that, to feel a connection with the club, surely a positive relationship with the fanbase is a good thing? We're part of a club, right? For quite a lot of fans that goes deeper than a third party transaction with a leisure provider like Odeon cinemas. Fans demand of players effort and passion/pride/commitment to the shirt regardless of form and we know there are players (at all clubs) who play with injections/against medical advice etc. My personal view is that, hard yards as it is, players demonstrating effort don't deserve booing, or slating on social media, and with that effort we should "have their back". Not blindly defending the indefensible, but demonstrating some basic respect when they're spending their lives training and playing to represent the club many of us have belonged to for months/years/decades and putting the effort in.

At a bit of a tangent, it's quite interesting to think about the segmentation of our fanbase and the proportions that sit within it. I guess the spectrum runs from those who are supporters but don't attend games (I'd count my pensioner mum in that group), to those who go if we're in good form and have nothing else to do, to those who go to the majority of games, to passholders, to those following home and away. I get the sense that the last group holds up reasonably well in terms of numbers over the last few years, but there's been a slide through the the rest. The primary reason is performance (and a promise high-deliver low record under AP) but is there also something around the way the club interacts with the fans? I'd put myself in the last group, but am I just a "loyal customer"? I feel a greater connection than that as it's been my #1 non-family/work interest of the past 26 years, but is there any reciprocity? Tbh I'm not sure what this would even be as I don't hear about great things other clubs do, but to regain fans whilst performances need fixing as top priority a more sincere relationship and realistic communications are also needed.

Re: Match tonight : Mon May 04, 2015 4:59 pm  

What ages are attending? The tv shots show predominantly Middle age/and over.

Re: Match tonight : Mon May 04, 2015 5:04 pm  

blakeysrobin wrote:

What ages are attending? The tv shots show predominantly Middle age/and over.

Pretty mixed near us. Teenage lads behind with middle aged couple, family in front with kids 10ish, plus grandparent. Difficult to tell as the family area which I think was relatively popular is in the West Stand where the cameras are.

Re: Match tonight : Mon May 04, 2015 5:32 pm  

Our neighbours are offering free tickets to the challenge cup tie against wigan,for all fans who were present at the thrashing at wigan.
A decent gesture. IMO.