Re: rumours on twitter : Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:38 pm  

westhullprop wrote:

thanks for your reply; radford has made mistakes but he has probably the worst talent/wages ratio in the league.
SA / Talanoa tony signings.
Trust me the club are still finiancially paying for the old regime.
I know of one player who is going home from england from a super leaugue club and now pearson has to fork out the "off shore" payments as he is going home which where agreed by previous regime. this is a big figure

Sticking purely to the inner workings of the salary cap (I devote far too much of my time to understanding it's working!)

If a new player signed for hull with a "lump sum" agreement (whether that be at the start as a signing on fee or at the end as an "off shore fee" as you put it) then the fee is spread throughout the length of the contract. If a player receives a signing on fee of 50k for a 5 year contract, instead of counting the 50k in the first year, it counts as 10k in every year the contract runs. Unless the player has subsequently signed a new contract since the initial contract then this is true of leaving clauses too.

If a player HAS signed a new contract since their original contract, then the "off shore" fee would of counted immediately on the cap (as a re-signing fee would) - the timing of the payment is irrelevant.

The only way this would be an issue is if the club are forcing a player out (if he wants to leave then he'll forgo these clauses) and it's included in the payoff, but that would be the clubs fault for forcing a player out it agreed a contract with...

Re: rumours on twitter : Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:43 pm  

westhullprop wrote:

thanks for your reply; radford has made mistakes but he has probably the worst talent/wages ratio in the league.
SA / Talanoa tony signings.

So how come Radford never alluded to any of this when he first took the job?

Nope, it was all, rosy, a new dawn, a new coach confident in his squad and his ability to lead them to success. We saw him and Pearson at the Fans' Forum, confident, relaxed and promising improvement and progress towards the club's goal, of being one of the top Super League clubs with this very same set of men with this appalling talent/wages ratio that is only mentioned now.

Sorry, I'm not buying it. Radford said he was happy with the team he had and would walk if he couldn't live up to his promises. He can't turn around now once it's all gone Pete Tong and decide now that the 'talent/wages ratio' wasn't all it was cracked up to be after all.

That is hogwash and is, in fact, exactly what Agar did too. Welch on the promise to go if he couldn't achieve success and instead blame the worldoand his dog.

Incidentally, I'd have said that Cas had a much worse 'talent/wages' ratio at the beginning of the season but look what a brand new coach inheriting that team has achieved.

Incidentally 2, Motu was recruited after McRae, so is very much of the Radford regime, not the 'old' one. Not sure if you mean Kath's tenure or Gentle/McRae by 'old regime'.

Re: rumours on twitter : Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:43 pm  

westhullprop wrote:

hi all,

Ive finally signed up after seeing enough hate towards radford without anyone knowing whats actually going on behind the scenes.

Majority go on like radford turns up; trains then picks the team and thats that.

Little know all the issues he and the club have; nobody on here would say anything to him in the same room?

A maxed out cap full of overpaid average national conference players who shaun mcrae and peter gentle brought in.

Players like arundel, jason crookes, miller are all top earners at the club; where are they now?

The paying off of holdsworth is also included in this years cap (not cheap)

All the below are seen if anyone pays attention to build up and training:

Ben Crookes has excellent potential but like most agents his seems to be in charge. Not going into detail but lets say he doesnt train and wont play again for hull.

Tuson - large wage / hardly played
Colbon - working in the community on first team budget
Talanoa - tries hard but very poor defensive reads cost a lot of points
SA - Has been a decent signing in my eyes but is crooked (doesnt train)
Pitts - tries hard but fc paying his wages to play for bradford

The issue at the moment i purely down to the old regime. They ran the club lik tomorrow would never come; with large back dated contracts and stupid wages. Well radford is having to pick up the pieces; why do you think no established coach wanted the job?

Give him at least another year; bring in someone who actually knows what they are doing to oversee lee / transfers and more importantly the academy set up.

Mcrae / Tony all established names but taking home a big wage and not doing a good enough job.

Pearson sending again next year shos his confidence in where the club coud be; wigan where nearly relegated a few years back and look were they are now (one of the only teams to not spend the cap)

They also questioned wades appointment.

RANT OFF

You go on as if radford has nothing to build on like we've been languishing at the bottom for years and he has to build a squad from scratch, when in fact he's had the foundations of a decent squad to build on, a squad which finished 6th and reached the cc final. But with the majority of last seasons squad he's managed to take us backwards a few years back to the near bottom of super league, and he's also managed to kill the confidence of a few of our younger players as well, he's way out of his depth.

With the way some clubs like widens and cas have gone this year and the emergence of Salford getting into the top 8 is going to be even harder next year and I've no confidence radford has the ability to get us into the top 8 next year, get rid now and get a new coach in to get bedded in and have a full pre season so then at least we'll have a chance of making the 8 next year instead of giving radford the start of next season as well and then realising he's not the man for the job and another season has been wasted.

Re: rumours on twitter : Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:44 pm  

I don't think Radford will take us forward, but in saying that it's getting tiresome the amount of diatribe from certain people on here.
What I don't understand I'd that if Talanoa and Sa were Tony signings, how come they got new deals under Radfords stewardship?
I also think people are rewriting history regarding Gentle.
His side was going nowhere, and he, McRae and Howes hoodwinked AP big time.

Re: rumours on twitter : Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:49 pm  

Sorry it's late and iam a bit confused what's westhullprop saying about crooks? Is he staying or going?

Re: rumours on twitter : Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:56 pm  

westhullprop wrote:

Who wants to take a bet for charity of hull in the play offs next year?
Next year the club will also have a grade A academy structure for the first time; only let down previously due to not enough locally produced players in the first team.
Tony signs all over seas players as did bomber previously.
Crooks will come out eventually; then you can all take back your word on how badly radford has treated him.

I will £100 hull don't make the playoffs, when I win, give it to help for heroes , thank you. Bets nil and void if radford ain't in charge

Re: rumours on twitter : Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:00 pm  

westhullprop wrote:

hi all,

Ive finally signed up after seeing enough hate towards radford without anyone knowing whats actually going on behind the scenes.

Majority go on like radford turns up; trains then picks the team and thats that.

Little know all the issues he and the club have; nobody on here would say anything to him in the same room?

A maxed out cap full of overpaid average national conference players who shaun mcrae and peter gentle brought in.

Players like arundel, jason crookes, miller are all top earners at the club; where are they now?

The paying off of holdsworth is also included in this years cap (not cheap)

All the below are seen if anyone pays attention to build up and training:

Ben Crookes has excellent potential but like most agents his seems to be in charge. Not going into detail but lets say he doesnt train and wont play again for hull.

Tuson - large wage / hardly played
Colbon - working in the community on first team budget
Talanoa - tries hard but very poor defensive reads cost a lot of points
SA - Has been a decent signing in my eyes but is crooked (doesnt train)
Pitts - tries hard but fc paying his wages to play for bradford

The issue at the moment i purely down to the old regime. They ran the club lik tomorrow would never come; with large back dated contracts and stupid wages. Well radford is having to pick up the pieces; why do you think no established coach wanted the job?

Give him at least another year; bring in someone who actually knows what they are doing to oversee lee / transfers and more importantly the academy set up.

Mcrae / Tony all established names but taking home a big wage and not doing a good enough job.

Pearson sending again next year shos his confidence in where the club coud be; wigan where nearly relegated a few years back and look were they are now (one of the only teams to not spend the cap)

They also questioned wades appointment.

RANT OFF

I don't profess to know the inner workings of Hull FC, I don't know how much money people earn, or who and what counts towards the salary cap. I don't know who deals with what, or who makes which signings, and I don't know why Ben Crooks isn't playing and will leave at the end of the season. And reading some of that s***e I'm pretty sure you don't know either.

What I do know is that, regardless of mistakes the old regime may or may not have made, the squad we have at our disposal is not the third worst squad in Superleague. So for that reason, Radford has failed miserably as coach. I don't want to hear all these excuses about poor signings and players earning too much money. Those players were here last season and were good enough for 6th place and a CC final. This season the same players couldn't beat a drum.

Re: rumours on twitter : Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:02 pm  

Mr. Zucchini Head wrote:

I don't profess to know the inner workings of Hull FC, I don't know how much money people earn, or who and what counts towards the salary cap. I don't know who deals with what, or who makes which signings, and I don't know why Ben Crooks isn't playing and will leave at the end of the season. And reading some of that s***e I'm pretty sure you don't know either.

What I do know is that, regardless of mistakes the old regime may or may not have made, the squad we have at our disposal is not the third worst squad in Superleague. So for that reason, Radford has failed miserably as coach. I don't want to hear all these excuses about poor signings and players earning too much money. Those players were here last season and were good enough for 6th place and a CC final. This season the same players couldn't beat a drum.

He sounds to me like Ice cream man reincarnated

Re: rumours on twitter : Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:05 pm  

Mr. Zucchini Head wrote:

I don't profess to know the inner workings of Hull FC, I don't know how much money people earn, or who and what counts towards the salary cap. I don't know who deals with what, or who makes which signings, and I don't know why Ben Crooks isn't playing and will leave at the end of the season. And reading some of that s***e I'm pretty sure you don't know either.

What I do know is that, regardless of mistakes the old regime may or may not have made, the squad we have at our disposal is not the third worst squad in Superleague. So for that reason, Radford has failed miserably as coach. I don't want to hear all these excuses about poor signings and players earning too much money. Those players were here last season and were good enough for 6th place and a CC final. This season the same players couldn't beat a drum.

But, under bandmaster Lee, they certainly know how to beat the retreat!!

Re: rumours on twitter : Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:19 pm  

Irregular Hoops wrote:

I also think people are rewriting history regarding Gentle.
His side was going nowhere, and he, McRae and Howes hoodwinked AP big time.

I think people are looking for a comfort blanket and erroneously find it in finishing 6th and getting mullered when it counts.
AP sussed it and shipped the lot out - whether Radford was/is the right man to take over is clearly at the moment highly questionable.