Re: DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings : Mon Nov 18, 2024 12:52 pm  

Chris71 wrote:

In regards to where we finish, following our dismal league finishes over the last few years, it's imperative that we finish as high as we possibly can and 8th should be a realistic target. Whilst we have and are still undergoing huge changes that are & will improve us, it will not happen overnight.

What I like so far that has come from the changes and I thought it was very much in evidence at the forum was the openness and honesty coming from RM, JC and AT which is refreshing change to the usual soundbites and false promises.

We know next year isn't going to see us challenging for LLS or GF but should see us challenging week in week out for 80mins. A lot has been made of this recruitment cycle but we can't hide behind the fact we were already behind the 8 ball when we started making changes. In an ideal world we'd have had replacements lined up etc before moved players on but i'd rather the club make the tough decisions needed and take the action rather than continue to wait. I think the next recruitment cycle will be much better and will already be much more proactive. From AT comments we are also going to be more proactive in terms of the Grading with his statement and doing what is need to attain an A grade at the first chance.

Money won't transform us in to an overnight success, success will only come from working hard, commitment, accountability and Leadership. In people like AT at the very top and JC we have two very capable people who have a wealth of experience and ability to be able to deliver the success. For all our neighbours are calling JC our 3rd choice coach for me I think it has been very much a case of one of those right time, right place situations that usually tend to work out as the more successful appointments. Listening to JC and having a chat with him in my local, for me he seems another in the mould like Peter Sharp so hopefully JC will have a similar impact of the players he has at his disposal.

I think other than the likes of Wigan, Warrington, Catalans, KR and probably St Helens (though not totally convinced with Wellens as HC) the rest will be fighting it out. Still not sure on how Leeds will go as yet, Salford may well see some struggle without Blease, Leigh I think will be there or there abouts, Cas, Wakey difficult to say and do think Huddersfield will have another poor season. So there is plenty of scope for us to be in the higher end of the mid table.

The main positive is there's at least a clear strategy at Hull to move forward now, along with the resources to carry it out. It will take time and there will be no prospect of competing for the top prize over the next couple of years - the main purposes of 2025 and 2026 are essentially to develop the young players to a point where they can play significant roles in the team going forward and to put the building blocks of performance in place for the future (i.e. team culture, ethos, strength and conditioning etc). Its a shame that it ever got to this point as it was a preventable situation but thankfully the Hull fanbase have been extremely loyal and seem prepared to stick by the club during the recovery process.

Many of the signings for those two years are essentially stop gaps and whilst they hopefully have enough gas in the tank to get by the next two years at a good level - the likes of Holmes, Hardaker, Sezer, Rapana and Briscoe likely won't be there in 2027 and I'm certain that is the year that has been earmarked by the new leadership as the target for Hull competing for the Grand Final again.

Re: DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings : Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:05 pm  

The Dentist Wilf wrote:

in the current scheme finish 11th as a grade B club with whats happening at clubs below us could see us relegated anyway.

Got to remember here that Huddersfield and Salford can't easily improve their score either. Both have good grounds, both have issues with crowds and income, but different scenarios with on the field performance. And as performance is a 3 year average even a dramatic change such as finishing bottom one year and top then next doesn't suddenly make for a great performance score.

Bradford are spending big but are 2.6 points behind us. Even if they win the 1895 cup and Grand Final it's still a big gap to make up. London will fall back now the owner is walking away. Aside from winning the trophies it's not clear what else Toulouse could do to massively improve their score either.

Overall I'm not too concerned and highly likely the game will tweak the process anyway I've watched RL long enough to know those in charge are a set of tinker men.

Re: DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings : Mon Nov 18, 2024 1:27 pm  

UllFC wrote:

Got to remember here that Huddersfield and Salford can't easily improve their score either. Both have good grounds, both have issues with crowds and income, but different scenarios with on the field performance. And as performance is a 3 year average even a dramatic change such as finishing bottom one year and top then next doesn't suddenly make for a great performance score.

Bradford are spending big but are 2.6 points behind us. Even if they win the 1895 cup and Grand Final it's still a big gap to make up. London will fall back now the owner is walking away. Aside from winning the trophies it's not clear what else Toulouse could do to massively improve their score either.

Overall I'm not too concerned and highly likely the game will tweak the process anyway I've watched RL long enough to know those in charge are a set of tinker men.

I just thought a grade b was a grade b, not different levels of grading depending on score. My understanding of those new proposals was that any grade b club who finish bottom are at risk

[Chris71]

Re: DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings : Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:08 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

Chris71 wrote:

In regards to where we finish, following our dismal league finishes over the last few years, it's imperative that we finish as high as we possibly can and 8th should be a realistic target. Whilst we have and are still undergoing huge changes that are & will improve us, it will not happen overnight.

What I like so far that has come from the changes and I thought it was very much in evidence at the forum was the openness and honesty coming from RM, JC and AT which is refreshing change to the usual soundbites and false promises.

We know next year isn't going to see us challenging for LLS or GF but should see us challenging week in week out for 80mins. A lot has been made of this recruitment cycle but we can't hide behind the fact we were already behind the 8 ball when we started making changes. In an ideal world we'd have had replacements lined up etc before moved players on but i'd rather the club make the tough decisions needed and take the action rather than continue to wait. I think the next recruitment cycle will be much better and will already be much more proactive. From AT comments we are also going to be more proactive in terms of the Grading with his statement and doing what is need to attain an A grade at the first chance.

Money won't transform us in to an overnight success, success will only come from working hard, commitment, accountability and Leadership. In people like AT at the very top and JC we have two very capable people who have a wealth of experience and ability to be able to deliver the success. For all our neighbours are calling JC our 3rd choice coach for me I think it has been very much a case of one of those right time, right place situations that usually tend to work out as the more successful appointments. Listening to JC and having a chat with him in my local, for me he seems another in the mould like Peter Sharp so hopefully JC will have a similar impact of the players he has at his disposal.

I think other than the likes of Wigan, Warrington, Catalans, KR and probably St Helens (though not totally convinced with Wellens as HC) the rest will be fighting it out. Still not sure on how Leeds will go as yet, Salford may well see some struggle without Blease, Leigh I think will be there or there abouts, Cas, Wakey difficult to say and do think Huddersfield will have another poor season. So there is plenty of scope for us to be in the higher end of the mid table.

The main positive is there's at least a clear strategy at Hull to move forward now, along with the resources to carry it out. It will take time and there will be no prospect of competing for the top prize over the next couple of years - the main purposes of 2025 and 2026 are essentially to develop the young players to a point where they can play significant roles in the team going forward and to put the building blocks of performance in place for the future (i.e. team culture, ethos, strength and conditioning etc). Its a shame that it ever got to this point as it was a preventable situation but thankfully the Hull fanbase have been extremely loyal and seem prepared to stick by the club during the recovery process.

Many of the signings for those two years are essentially stop gaps and whilst they hopefully have enough gas in the tank to get by the next two years at a good level - the likes of Holmes, Hardaker, Sezer, Rapana and Briscoe likely won't be there in 2027 and I'm certain that is the year that has been earmarked by the new leadership as the target for Hull competing for the Grand Final again.

Don't disagree with you at all and its a very fair and valid post.

I think the signings you mentioned have indeed been touched on by both RM & JC recently in that they were signed with their experience and age very much in mind. The experience side was needed to help the development of the young players coming through is the aspects you mentioned such as culture/attitude/work ethic, professionalism etc. The ages of the players that were brought in was so there would be little to no potential of blocking of the youth as JC or RM spoke about that.

So far it's all been relatively positive changes and all that seem genuinely thought out and part of a structured plan which has been needed for far too long. With that and the financial resources now available the ingredients are there to get the club back up to where it should really be.

As you say it will take time and should never have been allowed to get to the point we were at but now we can have real hope that we are moving back in the right direction and have genuine leadership across all levels within the club on and off the field.

Re: DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings : Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:09 pm  

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/promotion-relegation-rugby-league-meeting-9707206 This is the article discussing the proposal from the HDM. Basically, the idea is that whoever wins the Championship gets promoted as long as they are a Grade B club. Doesn't matter where they actually rank points wise against their peers so they can be the lowest ranked Grade B club in the Championship but if they win it, they're promoted. In terms of relegation, they would replace the lowest ranked Grade B team in Super League. Not the lowest placed Grade B team. So as things stand, Salford are the lowest ranked Grade B club in Super League and would be the ones under threat regardless of league position. If all clubs in Super League are Grade A clubs, the league would be expanded to accommodate the Championship winner. Personally I think that they either need to stick to the IMG grading system (certain aspects of the criteria's need tweaking of course) or go back to straight up promotion and relegation. This just sounds far too convoluted trying to accommodate both ideas and I can see there been some real controversy in the future on this.

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/promotion-relegation-rugby-league-meeting-9707206 This is the article discussing the proposal from the HDM. Basically, the idea is that whoever wins the Championship gets promoted as long as they are a Grade B club. Doesn't matter where they actually rank points wise against their peers so they can be the lowest ranked Grade B club in the Championship but if they win it, they're promoted. In terms of relegation, they would replace the lowest ranked Grade B team in Super League. Not the lowest placed Grade B team. So as things stand, Salford are the lowest ranked Grade B club in Super League and would be the ones under threat regardless of league position. If all clubs in Super League are Grade A clubs, the league would be expanded to accommodate the Championship winner. Personally I think that they either need to stick to the IMG grading system (certain aspects of the criteria's need tweaking of course) or go back to straight up promotion and relegation. This just sounds far too convoluted trying to accommodate both ideas and I can see there been some real controversy in the future on this.

Re: DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings : Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:12 pm  

Jake the Peg wrote:

I just thought a grade b was a grade b, not different levels of grading depending on score. My understanding of those new proposals was that any grade b club who finish bottom are at risk

What I've read is:

'The clubs will be re-assessed every year. Teams will stay in the top flight if they keep their Grade A status, with the best of the Grade B clubs them making up the rest of the competition.'

So for the moment we are the best rated GradeB club, and 10th place overall so 3 GradeB clubs would need to get a better score to relegate us. Obviously it's get complicated if we finish poorly again and a championship clubs bags bonus points for Cup and League wins but ultimately I don't see 3 clubs overturning us in the scores in 1 year,

[Chris71]

Re: DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings : Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:21 pm  

Roam Ranger wrote: https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/promotion-relegation-rugby-league-meeting-9707206 This is the article discussing the proposal from the HDM. Basically, the idea is that whoever wins the Championship gets promoted as long as they are a Grade B club. Doesn't matter where they actually rank points wise against their peers so they can be the lowest ranked Grade B club in the Championship but if they win it, they're promoted. In terms of relegation, they would replace the lowest ranked Grade B team in Super League. Not the lowest placed Grade B team. So as things stand, Salford are the lowest ranked Grade B club in Super League and would be the ones under threat regardless of league position. If all clubs in Super League are Grade A clubs, the league would be expanded to accommodate the Championship winner. Personally I think that they either need to stick to the IMG grading system (certain aspects of the criteria's need tweaking of course) or go back to straight up promotion and relegation. This just sounds far too convoluted trying to accommodate both ideas and I can see there been some real controversy in the future on this. As you say whoever wins the Championship/Play Off Final gets promoted as long as they are a Grade B club so conversely any club in SL that finishes bottom should be relegated grade B or A as I can't see the point of relegating a club on grade score rather than finishing bottom. It just wouldn't make sense when clubs in SL are A or B anyway and you have to be a B or higher to gain promotion like Wakefield have. So its should be as simple as any club that wins promotion goes up (as long as they hold a B grade as minimum) and any SL club that finishes bottom is relegated (whether A or B). But in true RL fashion in the UK we have to make it far more complicated than it should or needs to be.

Roam Ranger wrote: https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/promotion-relegation-rugby-league-meeting-9707206 This is the article discussing the proposal from the HDM. Basically, the idea is that whoever wins the Championship gets promoted as long as they are a Grade B club. Doesn't matter where they actually rank points wise against their peers so they can be the lowest ranked Grade B club in the Championship but if they win it, they're promoted. In terms of relegation, they would replace the lowest ranked Grade B team in Super League. Not the lowest placed Grade B team. So as things stand, Salford are the lowest ranked Grade B club in Super League and would be the ones under threat regardless of league position. If all clubs in Super League are Grade A clubs, the league would be expanded to accommodate the Championship winner. Personally I think that they either need to stick to the IMG grading system (certain aspects of the criteria's need tweaking of course) or go back to straight up promotion and relegation. This just sounds far too convoluted trying to accommodate both ideas and I can see there been some real controversy in the future on this. As you say whoever wins the Championship/Play Off Final gets promoted as long as they are a Grade B club so conversely any club in SL that finishes bottom should be relegated grade B or A as I can't see the point of relegating a club on grade score rather than finishing bottom. It just wouldn't make sense when clubs in SL are A or B anyway and you have to be a B or higher to gain promotion like Wakefield have. So its should be as simple as any club that wins promotion goes up (as long as they hold a B grade as minimum) and any SL club that finishes bottom is relegated (whether A or B). But in true RL fashion in the UK we have to make it far more complicated than it should or needs to be.

Re: DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings : Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:36 pm  

UllFC wrote:

What I've read is:

'The clubs will be re-assessed every year. Teams will stay in the top flight if they keep their Grade A status, with the best of the Grade B clubs them making up the rest of the competition.'

So for the moment we are the best rated GradeB club, and 10th place overall so 3 GradeB clubs would need to get a better score to relegate us. Obviously it's get complicated if we finish poorly again and a championship clubs bags bonus points for Cup and League wins but ultimately I don't see 3 clubs overturning us in the scores in 1 year,

fair enough. I'd not taken too much notice but the whole system seems a POS. When are they regrading? It could be that a team thinks they're safe sat in 6th place then suddenly be relegated as someone else has got a higher grading than them

Re: DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings : Mon Nov 18, 2024 2:51 pm  

Jake the Peg wrote:

fair enough. I'd not taken too much notice but the whole system seems a POS. When are they regrading? It could be that a team thinks they're safe sat in 6th place then suddenly be relegated as someone else has got a higher grading than them

Same time of year again in October.

But again the league finish for one year doesn't really drastically alter things as it's a 3 year average in theory a club could finish 12th, 12th and then get a billionaire owner and sign the NSW SOO Team and finish 1st and still have an average of 8th for the scores. It has to be 2 or 3 years of sucess to nudge the scores really upwards.

Re: DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings : Mon Nov 18, 2024 3:19 pm  

UllFC wrote:

Same time of year again in October.

But again the league finish for one year doesn't really drastically alter things as it's a 3 year average in theory a club could finish 12th, 12th and then get a billionaire owner and sign the NSW SOO Team and finish 1st and still have an average of 8th for the scores. It has to be 2 or 3 years of sucess to nudge the scores really upwards.

not just about league places though is it. You could get another teanm sorting issues out and coming higher like we are hoping to.

Either way it's a shambles. No one in their right mind expected to see waky and cas get grade A's