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Re: Leigh Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:11 am  

User avatarhomme vaste wrote:
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atomic wrote:
:CLAP: :CLAP:


I wonder if you would be clapping that comment if Leigh didn't find themselves almost dead certain for relegation, I think not.
Re: Leigh Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:20 am  

User avatarvastman wrote:
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homme vaste wrote:
Leigh were deemed to be the most prepared short term to take the position, they weren`t miles ahead of everyone else, in fact I would go as far to say if there wasn`t uncertainty around travel restrictions then it probably wouldn`t of been leigh.

I really don`t see how we can say the likes of Fev are incompatible for SL when you put them against the likes of Cas or us, they are a well run club of recent, great production line, better facilities than either of us, a good core fan base like us and Cas, all they are behind is 6 or 7 quality players in there first team which given an off season knowing they are in SL and with central funding that would go along way to catching them up. Can you come up with any reason as to why Fev would be incompatible yet we would? Other than us already been in SL?

Also, if it wouldn't make sense for us not to be in SL with an Elite Academy Licence then what about the likes of London, Newcastle, Bradford? I get two out of those three are deemed to be expansion areas but the point still stands, they aren`t in SL and probably won`t be anytime soon.

For me the team that wins the championship this season should come up for me, likely to be Tolouse or Fev, both are just as compatible as the majority of clubs in the league in my opinion.


Sorry but you are wrong, Leigh was the only team deemed remotely capable, I've been told this by a few people,

You miss the point, it's not that Fev is not incompatible, virtually no team is compatible these days with just one year's grace, surely you get that?

Yes, it would be ludicrous regarding the Elite Academise if we went down. You're somewhat twisting it here. Newcastle and London go theirs based on location and spreading the game, let's be honest here and Bradford didn't get a licence to start with. However, the real issue is if we went bust on relegation, MC says we won't and I believe him but it's time-limited. If we don't get the new stand and we wallow in the Championship too long then that won't last.

The game needs stability, it's the biggest single difference between SL and the NRL.

Do you think the NRL would invite Fev to join them, Do you think it would ask us if we weren't already here?
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Re: Leigh Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:31 am  

lampyboy wrote:
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Promotion and relegation should be taken over a 3 season average.
Promotion.
If you finisg top twice over the 3 seasons you are promoted.
If A different team finishes top over the 3 seasons it goes to a points difference.
If in the first 2 seasons a team finishes top it gives it the opportunity to recruit during season 3
Relegation.
The same as promotion but in reverse.
A team finishing bottom during season 1 can at least be given the opportunity to recruit for season 2 and 3.
If you finish bottom 2 seasons on the go at least you know your going to be relegated at the end of season 3
Re: Leigh Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:36 am  

User avatarvastman wrote:
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homme vaste wrote:
I wonder if you would be clapping that comment if Leigh didn't find themselves almost dead certain for relegation, I think not.


Because he's being realistic and you're clinging to dogma. If Covid has done anything it's put the Championship even further behind the SL, the gap is now enormous. Doesn't matter whether you like it or not it's a fact. I've been waching the game for 40 years and I remember a time when a promoted club could actually go on and win the comp within a season or two, not a chance now,. It's a different world and that pomantic part of the game is dead, I wish it wasn't but it is.

So case study Fev.

The pitch slopes, not just a bit but a lot, this is totally unacceptable for an SL club. That would cost their first year's players budget to sort.

The floodlights are totally inadequate.

The ground still only holds 7,000 I believe, 3000 short.

The club lacks all the basics of a junior setup.

Its corporate support and facilities virtually non-existent when compared to top SL clubs.

Featherstone is not even a town it's a village, even if you tag on Pontefract it's not a huge catchment area and it's one it shares with two existing SL clubs.

Fev has never in their entire history been a fully professional club, those involved have very limited experience, at least Leigh has had a few goes at it.

And so on.

Of course a lot of the above applies to us and Cas but as they say, possession is 9/10 of the law. We are lacking as a SL club but nowhere near as lacking as Fev.

P&R in its historical sense is dead, we sold that bit of heritage when we took the SKY coin, but like all dinosaurs, it's taken a long time for the tail to get the message to the brain.
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Re: Leigh Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:54 am  

User avatarhomme vaste wrote:
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vastman wrote:
Because he's being realistic and you're clinging to dogma. If Covid has done anything it's put the Championship even further behind the SL, the gap is now enormous. Doesn't matter whether you like it or not it's a fact. I've been waching the game for 40 years and I remember a time when a promoted club could actually go on and win the comp within a season or two, not a chance now,. It's a different world and that pomantic part of the game is dead, I wish it wasn't but it is.

So case study Fev.

The pitch slopes, not just a bit but a lot, this is totally unacceptable for an SL club. That would cost their first year's players budget to sort.

The floodlights are totally inadequate.

The ground still only holds 7,000 I believe, 3000 short.

The club lacks all the basics of a junior setup.

Its corporate support and facilities virtually non-existent when compared to top SL clubs.

Featherstone is not even a town it's a village, even if you tag on Pontefract it's not a huge catchment area and it's one it shares with two existing SL clubs.

Fev has never in their entire history been a fully professional club, those involved have very limited experience, at least Leigh has had a few goes at it.

And so on.

Of course a lot of the above applies to us and Cas but as they say, possession is 9/10 of the law. We are lacking as a SL club but nowhere near as lacking as Fev.

P&R in its historical sense is dead, we sold that bit of heritage when we took the SKY coin, but like all dinosaurs, it's taken a long time for the tail to get the message to the brain.


By your own admission a lot of what you stipulate applies to us and Cas also, regardless of what you reference on possession that's just not true in this case, if we go back to licensing so be it, we will also see 90% of the pressure Fev will see to meet the criteria, that`s just the truth, as we stand SL, Championship all leagues are about who is the most competitive on the field at the end of the day, that's what gets you promoted, that's what gets you relegated.

I do agree by the way, it`s very hard for a promoted team to be competitive and stay up but that's just sport, we shouldn't look for ways to help clubs out to be a SL team when there are at least 15/16 teams wanting a spot in a league of 12. Of course teams that are currently in the league and have been for years have the advantage, it`s a step up for them and that's the way it should be, if they are good enough they stay up and build something, simple.

By the way, he`s not being realistic, he`s showing support for something that suits a club he supports right now, as I say if Leigh weren't in the position that they were in currently you and I both know he would not be on here clapping that comment.

1. We started the season with P&R 2.The disruption from Covid up until now is very minimal 3. We have a system in place to ensure a fair league table come the end of the season. Why, again do we change the goalpost mid season?
Re: Leigh Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:44 am  

User avatarBarnsleyGull wrote:
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lampyboy wrote:
Promotion and relegation should be taken over a 3 season average.
Promotion.
If you finisg top twice over the 3 seasons you are promoted.
If A different team finishes top over the 3 seasons it goes to a points difference.
If in the first 2 seasons a team finishes top it gives it the opportunity to recruit during season 3
Relegation.
The same as promotion but in reverse.
A team finishing bottom during season 1 can at least be given the opportunity to recruit for season 2 and 3.
If you finish bottom 2 seasons on the go at least you know your going to be relegated at the end of season 3


I need a lie down in a dark room...... :roll:
Re: Leigh Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:34 am  
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If we're scrapping promotion and relegation then we might aswell scrap the Championship and League 1, because if they've nothing to play for what's the point?

With all the recent outrage over the European Super League in football, what's the difference if we scrap P&R? And many fans would be in favour if we if we weren't already in SL?
Last edited by imwakefieldtillidie on Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Leigh Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:40 am  

User avatarFordy wrote:
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homme vaste wrote:
By your own admission a lot of what you stipulate applies to us and Cas also, regardless of what you reference on possession that's just not true in this case, if we go back to licensing so be it, we will also see 90% of the pressure Fev will see to meet the criteria, that`s just the truth, as we stand SL, Championship all leagues are about who is the most competitive on the field at the end of the day, that's what gets you promoted, that's what gets you relegated.

I do agree by the way, it`s very hard for a promoted team to be competitive and stay up but that's just sport, we shouldn't look for ways to help clubs out to be a SL team when there are at least 15/16 teams wanting a spot in a league of 12. Of course teams that are currently in the league and have been for years have the advantage, it`s a step up for them and that's the way it should be, if they are good enough they stay up and build something, simple.

By the way, he`s not being realistic, he`s showing support for something that suits a club he supports right now, as I say if Leigh weren't in the position that they were in currently you and I both know he would not be on here clapping that comment.

1. We started the season with P&R 2.The disruption from Covid up until now is very minimal 3. We have a system in place to ensure a fair league table come the end of the season. Why, again do we change the goalpost mid season?



I'd have to disagree with that bit, but even on a points based system alone and with everyone managing to play all their assigned fixtures we still don't have that due to the stupid loop fixtures and magic weekend games.
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Re: Leigh Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:43 pm  

User avatarvastman wrote:
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imwakefieldtillidie wrote:
If we're scrapping promotion and relegation then we might aswell scrap the Championship and League 1, because if they've nothing to play for what's the point?

With all the recent outrage over the European Super League in football, what's the difference if we scrap P&R? And many fans would be in favour if we if we weren't already in SL?



Not true any more than it's true in Australia.

Every club should have the right to play in SL I agree but not via the antiquated method of one up one down, it's utterly destructive.

I don't actually have a formula of my own but I do know the existing one is totally unfit for purpose.

I suppose if I were forced then I'd have a points system, of which you must get a minimum of 80 points (with the rest being partly discretionary) out of 100 to gain promotion and a three years license.

1: Win the competition obviously. 70 points.

2: Financial security deposited with the RFL to protect wages and allow the club temporary administration if club crashes, say 100k (refundable). 5 points.

3: Modern corporate facilities/players facilities/floodlights/pitch. 5 points

4: A stadium with a minimum 5,000 capacity and the ability to do that to 7,000 with a temporary structure or better a permanent one. 10 points, partly discretionary for year 1.

5: An agreement to run a U19's side, self-funded year 2, year 3 add U17's, end of year 3 apply for elite status. 10 points, partly discretionary for year 1.
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Re: Leigh Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:51 pm  

User avatarhomme vaste wrote:
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vastman wrote:
Not true any more than it's true in Australia.

Every club should have the right to play in SL I agree but not via the antiquated method of one up one down, it's utterly destructive.

I don't actually have a formula of my own but I do know the existing one is totally unfit for purpose.

I suppose if I were forced then I'd have a points system, of which you must get a minimum of 80 points (with the rest being partly discretionary) out of 100 to gain promotion and a three years license.

1: Win the competition obviously. 70 points.

2: Financial security deposited with the RFL to protect wages and allow the club temporary administration if club crashes, say 100k (refundable). 5 points.

3: Modern corporate facilities/players facilities/floodlights/pitch. 5 points

4: A stadium with a minimum 5,000 capacity and the ability to do that to 7,000 with a temporary structure or better a permanent one. 10 points, partly discretionary for year 1.

5: An agreement to run a U19's side, self-funded year 2, year 3 add U17's, end of year 3 apply for elite status. 10 points, partly discretionary for year 1.


Surely Australia is different on the basis that its common to earn a very good fulltime salary playing outside of the NRL, you might get the odd championship player earning a good living but the majority are part time, there`s just not the money over here for that, not to mention the majority of those competitions are made up of clubs that are feeder clubs to NRL clubs, wholly owned and operated by those organisations in most situations.
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Melbourne 24 815 316 499 42
Penrith 24 640 280 360 42
Souths 24 775 453 322 40
Manly 24 744 492 252 32
Sydney 24 636 475 161 32
Parramatta 24 566 457 109 30
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Catalans 23 688 398 290 38 172.86 82.61
St.Helens 21 548 229 319 32 239.30 76.19
Warrington 21 588 354 234 31 166.10 73.81
Wigan 25 387 385 2 30 100.52 60
Leeds 24 556 440 116 26 126.36 54.17
Hull KR 20 497 458 39 20 108.52 50
 
Castleford 23 439 552 -113 22 79.53 47.83
Hull FC 21 409 476 -67 17 85.92 40.48
Wakefield 24 482 548 -66 18 87.96 37.50
Huddersfield 23 418 492 -74 16 84.96 34.78
Salford 22 402 586 -184 14 68.60 31.82
Leigh 21 332 828 -496 4 40.10 9.52
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Toulouse 13 616 112 504 26 550 100
Featherstone 19 817 254 563 34 321.65 94.74
Halifax 19 512 323 189 26 158.51 68.42
Bradford 18 483 455 28 24 106.15 66.67
LondonB 18 504 499 5 21 101 63.89
Batley 19 525 370 155 24 141.89 63.16
 
Whitehaven 20 447 496 -49 21 90.12 52.50
York 19 470 455 15 16 103.30 42.11
Widnes 19 458 509 -51 15 89.98 39.47
Newcastle 18 381 521 -140 13 73.13 36.11
Sheffield 18 382 553 -171 13 69.08 36.11
Dewsbury 19 308 570 -262 13 54.04 34.21
Oldham 19 270 691 -421 5 39.07 13.16
Swinton 20 354 719 -365 3 49.24 7.50
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Barrow 17 596 275 321 27 216.73 79.41
Workington 15 471 310 161 21 151.94 70
Crusaders 17 539 410 129 22 131.46 64.71
Doncaster 17 472 390 82 22 121.03 64.71
Keighley 18 612 385 227 23 158.96 63.89
Hunslet 18 562 435 127 20 129.20 55.56
 
Rochdale 17 505 488 17 17 103.48 50
Coventry 17 407 460 -53 12 88.48 35.29
LondonS 18 292 577 -285 7 50.61 19.44
West Wales 18 208 896 -688 1 23.21 2.78
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St.HelensW 7 370 36 334 12 1,027.78 85.71
WiganW 6 222 64 158 10 346.88 83.33
YorkW 6 186 102 84 8 182.35 66.67
CastlefordW 6 166 96 70 8 172.92 66.67
BradfordW 8 158 264 -106 6 59.85 37.50
Hudds W 7 104 288 -184 4 36.11 28.57
 
Wire W 8 150 334 -184 4 44.91 25
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