Re: Applegarth : Sat May 20, 2023 4:24 pm  

Trojan Horse wrote:

I was Mash to succeed but it’s clear he needs a good strong supporting set up around him at this point in his career to do that. Currently he doesn’t have that. Hopefully they will be addressed soon enough.

At the end of the day Mash is way out of his depth,as a coach .this is Chester part 2 The last 3 years with Chester were garbage,. is signings started the rot that we are in now.,and all the time there were fans coming on and saying he needs help .Mash like Chester is the one to blame and he should be sacked . He is the head coach ,he is in charge of who comes in and who leaves and his decisions have been mind blowing to say the least .Mash do the decent thing and go and then we can play rugby again instead of the garbage you are making the team play. Think PopTart said we could do with Finn If Finn was here he would be one of the fastest players in the team That sums it up now bad as are

Re: Applegarth : Sat May 20, 2023 4:30 pm  

Trojan Horse wrote:

There’s no reason why they couldn’t have input or be a pillar of support. The role would be what the club would put in its job description.

Sorry but no. Applegarth is either up to the job or he isn’t. If a head coach needs someone to hold his hand then he isn’t the right man to be head coach and an alternative needs to be found.

[PopTart]

Re: Applegarth : Sat May 20, 2023 4:41 pm  

Sacred Cow wrote:

Sorry but no. Applegarth is either up to the job or he isn’t. If a head coach needs someone to hold his hand then he isn’t the right man to be head coach and an alternative needs to be found.

I agree.
Though some have suggested Mash go back to assistant.

Didn't Leeds do that with Powell in his first stint? Worked out well for him.

Re: Applegarth : Sat May 20, 2023 6:48 pm  

Sacred Cow wrote:

Sorry but no. Applegarth is either up to the job or he isn’t. If a head coach needs someone to hold his hand then he isn’t the right man to be head coach and an alternative needs to be found.

I never said hold his hand. You just said that. What I said was a support pillar/sounding board etc. let’s not pretend coaches won’t communicate and take advice from within their own set ups. Currently that set up is none existent for us.

My preference would likely be to not look for an assistant but to look for a new coach and move Apelgarth back down to assistant. I mentioned this weeks ago. But if the board wish to stick with Apelgarth he needs a strong coaching set up around him that he can garner support from, this for me should include an experienced coach. Whether that be an assistant or two assistants or a DOR I dont know but it can’t stay as it is and whatever change or appointment it needs to be looking at the next 2-5 years at least.

Re: Applegarth : Sat May 20, 2023 7:34 pm  

Trojan Horse wrote:

I never said hold his hand. You just said that. What I said was a support pillar/sounding board etc. let’s not pretend coaches won’t communicate and take advice from within their own set ups. Currently that set up is none existent for us.

My preference would likely be to not look for an assistant but to look for a new coach and move Apelgarth back down to assistant. I mentioned this weeks ago. But if the board wish to stick with Apelgarth he needs a strong coaching set up around him that he can garner support from, this for me should include an experienced coach. Whether that be an assistant or two assistants or a DOR I dont know but it can’t stay as it is and whatever change or appointment it needs to be looking at the next 2-5 years at least.

Yep i said that because thats exactly what you are advocating and you are wrong. If he needs a d.o.r. to advise him (and that role isn’t meant for that anyway by the way) then he isn’t ready for the job. Get a head coach that is up to it and you don’t need to waste money on an advisory role.

Re: Applegarth : Sat May 20, 2023 9:26 pm  

Sacred Cow wrote:

Yep i said that because thats exactly what you are advocating and you are wrong. If he needs a d.o.r. to advise him (and that role isn’t meant for that anyway by the way) then he isn’t ready for the job. Get a head coach that is up to it and you don’t need to waste money on an advisory role.

Like Wigan have Shaun Wayne who is leadership & Management Director

[PopTart]

Re: Applegarth : Sat May 20, 2023 9:32 pm  

Kettykat wrote:

Like Wigan have Shaun Wayne who is leadership & Management Director

Which is an important role. It just isn't a coaching role.
We should have one so coach can concentrate on coaching.

Re: Applegarth : Sun May 21, 2023 6:28 am  

PopTart wrote:

Which is an important role. It just isn't a coaching role.
We should have one so coach can concentrate on coaching.

Ok Wigan have a great squad to choose from , but Matty has a great person looking over proceedings at the club ,and will provide a wealth of experience when required .Our set up is living proof that if you cut corners and don’t have that experience and right people in place in the right positions within the management structures of a club ,your on a hiding to nowhere ,as we see unfolding before our very eyes .Our choices of players and contracts has been at best woefully inadequate and whilst MA might have been great with the junior set ups , it’s a whole different ball game with adults and their management needs . Fingers crossed going forwards we can get the right people in the right places behind the scenes and see those benefits on the field in the coming seasons .

Re: Applegarth : Sun May 21, 2023 9:31 am  

Trojan Horse wrote:

I never said hold his hand. You just said that. What I said was a support pillar/sounding board etc. let’s not pretend coaches won’t communicate and take advice from within their own set ups. Currently that set up is none existent for us.

My preference would likely be to not look for an assistant but to look for a new coach and move Apelgarth back down to assistant. I mentioned this weeks ago. But if the board wish to stick with Apelgarth he needs a strong coaching set up around him that he can garner support from, this for me should include an experienced coach. Whether that be an assistant or two assistants or a DOR I dont know but it can’t stay as it is and whatever change or appointment it needs to be looking at the next 2-5 years at least.

Any coach worth his salt won’t want Applegarth as an assistant because he’s got a reputation for undermining those in front of him to advance himself.

Applegarth needs to go and go completely from the club, he’s moved on from being a Youth Coach and if he still has ambition to be a Head Coach he needs to drop into the Championship and build his experience.

It’s not hindsight from me to say it because I said even before he was given the job, he wasn’t ready, he was a ‘coach by numbers’ kind of Coach, he would make players play to a strict job description thus eliminating ingenuity & flair, his playing format would be get to a point (40s & 60s) and play wedge/double wedge as nausium & his man management wasn’t the best. I said there was a decent Coach in him and maybe one day he’d be SL level but he needed to gain far more experience and wasn’t yet ready.

I said all this the day Willie was sacked and MAs name was rumoured and I got roundly criticised by many on here saying they knew better, they didn’t!

[PopTart]

Re: Applegarth : Sun May 21, 2023 10:15 am  

The Avenger wrote:

Any coach worth his salt won’t want Applegarth as an assistant because he’s got a reputation for undermining those in front of him to advance himself.

Applegarth needs to go and go completely from the club, he’s moved on from being a Youth Coach and if he still has ambition to be a Head Coach he needs to drop into the Championship and build his experience.

It’s not hindsight from me to say it because I said even before he was given the job, he wasn’t ready, he was a ‘coach by numbers’ kind of Coach, he would make players play to a strict job description thus eliminating ingenuity & flair, his playing format would be get to a point (40s & 60s) and play wedge/double wedge as nausium & his man management wasn’t the best. I said there was a decent Coach in him and maybe one day he’d be SL level but he needed to gain far more experience and wasn’t yet ready.

I said all this the day Willie was sacked and MAs name was rumoured and I got roundly criticised by many on here saying they knew better, they didn’t!

You did say that. No one can argue that.
I have to say I wasn't that keen when he was first mentioned because of his lack of experience.
But the more I listen to him the more I think he is right for the role......however the attack is stunted and I'm not sure its the thing you say. Playing to a strict job description isn't a problem to me, providing you have the people to do it.
Dropping a high ball to the winger under no pressure is nothing to do with Mash. Every try bar maybe one against Leigh was down to an individual making a basic mistake.
Maybe you can blame the recruitment or the team selection but that's not a game strategy issue.