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Re: Sick of the cheap option. : Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:36 am  

owiepob wrote:

To go back to the title of the thread 'sick of the cheap option' - well who isn't? All trinity fans under retirement age have only ever known a club sustained by buying or recruiting at the cheap end - and in the best case senario selling after we have added value to the player in order to keep the club afloat.

Higher ambitions are held by all, I believe, but the capacity to put them into practice depend upon a couple of factors referred to above; a high level of spending by a small number of wealthy supporters or a low level of spending by about 10k supporters (fans).

The Ted knockers seem to loose sight of the fact that, in the absence of either of the above, he has subsidised your leisure activity year on year on year. If you think the ticket price is the actual cost of putting on the product that you 'enjoy' on a Sunday you are living in cuckoo land. What the present BOD have achieved in the past 10 years is, in busines terms remarkable. With probably the smallest turnover of any of our competitors we have over a 15 year period turned ourselves from easy beats on the verge of financial meltdown to a solid mid to higher table club - occassionally punching above that (as last year) and occasionally pubching below that (this year).

Remember that over the 15 year period in question WTRLFC have for the majority of the time come to this stage in the season still in with a chance of finishing in a spot that would have (in the old day) resulted in relegation.

Talk of wanting an investor to come in is fanciful nonesense. Investers expect a financial return - sports clubs only deliver this in the tiny minority of cases. What we want is someone to spend money on our club, a wealthy supporter looking for a play thing, an ego enhancer - ask yourself seriously would you use WTRLFTC in that fashion if you were not a supporter?

Im not praising the product on the field, far from it, but this season the circumstances have transpired against us (Newton, Tronc, Brough). Could we have been more proactive to prevent this - frankly I don't know.

Im not seeking to disrespect the views of the knockers as I think the opinions are valid and many of them I agree with. BUT to divorce these opinions from the longer term and wider view do the BOD a disservice. Reading the negative posts on this thread is a bit like listening to a house hunting couple on minnimum wage argue about why the ex council house they have just viewed isn't as good as the semi their mates live in rural North Yorkshire.

Good post.

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Re: Sick of the cheap option. : Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:39 am  

altofts wildcat wrote:

I dont think that Brough leaving was the problem. We played our best 10 minuits of rugby THIS SEASON when he was sin binned away at Hull KR.

The problem for me is the fact that Kear cant seem to inspire the players anymore. We have played well in four games since the catalans link. They were Leeds at Murryfield and Headingley who we always seem to perform against, Quins at home who we always seem to beat at home and Crusaders away wher they had nothing to Loose and i think anybody could have motivated us to play against them. So i think that it is clear that Kear cannot motivate the team and i think that it is because the players know that he wants out. This means that i think it is time to get rid of Kear and bring in a new coach.

As for letting players go, i have a different opinion to most. Players are ambitious and will want to win things and unfortunatly this will probably not happen at wakey so players leaving for bigger clubs who are in the running to win things i don't have a problem with. However players such as Snitch and Fox who have left for clubs of a similar stature to ours is where i have a problem. I think that the club should be able to hold on to these sort of players and i blame the BOD for this.

So your point is that Kear is rubbish and cannot motivate the team.....except when he has motivated the team and we got our tactics right?

Re: Sick of the cheap option. : Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:10 am  

I have no idea what has caused our appalling form this year. My suspicion is that because we are constantly punching above our weight, a loss of confidence can put us down where perhaps we belong, and once you are down there, it is difficult to get back up again.

We have always thrived on upstarts wanting to prove a point, and that included Brough, although as he seemed to be leaving the club for as long as he was there, I suspect he saw us as nothing more than a shop window. Perhaps after a few years, the upstarts can no longer get themselves up for the challenge and there has to be a change around.

We were right to get rid of Tronc. He didn't want to be here, and the scathing way in which JD spoke of him after he went was a good illustration of why it would have been a mistake to make him stay. He was great for about three games, and then he was a pudding, and he would have been an expensive pudding all year. Sometimes you've just got to cut your losses.

As for Brough, with hindsight, it was maybe the wrong decision. We could have made him stay, make him work for a decent contract for someone else, but remember how he played against Huddersfield in his next to last game, and how we won the Hull KR game with him off the field. Was his bottom lip coming out? Sometimes you've just got to make a decision, and I can understand why they made the decision at the time. What we lacked then was a game-changer, like we used to have Ellis, and then Solomona, and then Brough. But what I don't know anything about is the clubs financial position. Running Wakefield Trinity isn't just about putting a team on the pitch, it's also about keeping it solvent, and that must be like spinning plates. Sometimes you've got to think financially.

I don't blame the coach. He showed that he can motivate, with good performances all year against Leeds, and a good win against Hull in the middle of a slump. Although the style of rugby that day wasn't wild and fancy, it ground out the game. For me, the team just started looking a bit old and jaded, especially when the team leader in Cooke is way past his best. Maybe we'll do what we did before the 2007 season and dip into the Championship for some talent. Perhaps the team just needs some more upstarts wanting to prove a point.

See you in 2011.

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Re: Sick of the cheap option. : Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:28 am  

Slugger McBatt wrote:

I have no idea what has caused our appalling form this year. My suspicion is that because we are constantly punching above our weight, a loss of confidence can put us down where perhaps we belong, and once you are down there, it is difficult to get back up again.

We have always thrived on upstarts wanting to prove a point, and that included Brough, although as he seemed to be leaving the club for as long as he was there, I suspect he saw us as nothing more than a shop window. Perhaps after a few years, the upstarts can no longer get themselves up for the challenge and there has to be a change around.

We were right to get rid of Tronc. He didn't want to be here, and the scathing way in which JD spoke of him after he went was a good illustration of why it would have been a mistake to make him stay. He was great for about three games, and then he was a pudding, and he would have been an expensive pudding all year. Sometimes you've just got to cut your losses.

As for Brough, with hindsight, it was maybe the wrong decision. We could have made him stay, make him work for a decent contract for someone else, but remember how he played against Huddersfield in his next to last game, and how we won the Hull KR game with him off the field. Was his bottom lip coming out? Sometimes you've just got to make a decision, and I can understand why they made the decision at the time. What we lacked then was a game-changer, like we used to have Ellis, and then Solomona, and then Brough. But what I don't know anything about is the clubs financial position. Running Wakefield Trinity isn't just about putting a team on the pitch, it's also about keeping it solvent, and that must be like spinning plates. Sometimes you've got to think financially.

I don't blame the coach. He showed that he can motivate, with good performances all year against Leeds, and a good win against Hull in the middle of a slump. Although the style of rugby that day wasn't wild and fancy, it ground out the game. For me, the team just started looking a bit old and jaded, especially when the team leader in Cooke is way past his best. Maybe we'll do what we did before the 2007 season and dip into the Championship for some talent. Perhaps the team just needs some more upstarts wanting to prove a point.

See you in 2011.

I agree with all that Slugger.

Re: Sick of the cheap option. : Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:48 am  

J.T wrote:

Who is this hardcore who will let the club do what they want? What action are you suggesting for us all to have 'one voice'? For everybody just to stop going? Not evrybodies position is as black and white as your postings seem to suggest. It's not as simple as for Kear or against Kear or for Ted or against Ted there are many grey areas inbetween and as mentioned above what we as fans can actually do about it.

I guess on here I would be considered pro Kear and the club just because I don't believe that Kear is a double agent sent to destroy us from within! I am very critical of the way the club is run and the amateur set up we have in many areas but as I don't know the ins and outs of the finances of the club and of any potential change in ownership I feel pretty powerless do anything about it save from stop going which doesn't really help in my opinion. As for Kear I would still give him next season to try and sort it out I still believe he has earnt that right. However I do understand why people have decided that enough is enough this season as the performances have been terrible and therefore I could understand if Kear was replaced at the end of the season. My only problem with this for me is back to Ted and co and do I trust them to make the right appointment and I don't I just know they will go for the cheapest option possible which could make things even worse, though I accept it couldn't get much worse! So the problem again comes to the ownership of the club but as I say above what are the alternatives and waht can we do about it?

The other thing is it's easy to have snide digs at Vastman for only coming on when things are going well but I'd take one Vastman over the scores of folk that only come on when things are going badly and seem to actually enjoy sticking the boot and I sense want us to lose so they can come on and bitch and moan about how terrible things are. If you think I have any wish to stand side by side and have one voice with such people then you are sadly mistaken.

This

Re: Sick of the cheap option. : Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:49 am  

Slugger McBatt wrote:

I have no idea what has caused our appalling form this year. My suspicion is that because we are constantly punching above our weight, a loss of confidence can put us down where perhaps we belong, and once you are down there, it is difficult to get back up again.

We have always thrived on upstarts wanting to prove a point, and that included Brough, although as he seemed to be leaving the club for as long as he was there, I suspect he saw us as nothing more than a shop window. Perhaps after a few years, the upstarts can no longer get themselves up for the challenge and there has to be a change around.

We were right to get rid of Tronc. He didn't want to be here, and the scathing way in which JD spoke of him after he went was a good illustration of why it would have been a mistake to make him stay. He was great for about three games, and then he was a pudding, and he would have been an expensive pudding all year. Sometimes you've just got to cut your losses.

As for Brough, with hindsight, it was maybe the wrong decision. We could have made him stay, make him work for a decent contract for someone else, but remember how he played against Huddersfield in his next to last game, and how we won the Hull KR game with him off the field. Was his bottom lip coming out? Sometimes you've just got to make a decision, and I can understand why they made the decision at the time. What we lacked then was a game-changer, like we used to have Ellis, and then Solomona, and then Brough. But what I don't know anything about is the clubs financial position. Running Wakefield Trinity isn't just about putting a team on the pitch, it's also about keeping it solvent, and that must be like spinning plates. Sometimes you've got to think financially.

I don't blame the coach. He showed that he can motivate, with good performances all year against Leeds, and a good win against Hull in the middle of a slump. Although the style of rugby that day wasn't wild and fancy, it ground out the game. For me, the team just started looking a bit old and jaded, especially when the team leader in Cooke is way past his best. Maybe we'll do what we did before the 2007 season and dip into the Championship for some talent. Perhaps the team just needs some more upstarts wanting to prove a point.

See you in 2011.

Yes this sums it up for me also

Re: Sick of the cheap option. : Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:56 am  

J.T wrote:

Who is this hardcore who will let the club do what they want? What action are you suggesting for us all to have 'one voice'? For everybody just to stop going? Not evrybodies position is as black and white as your postings seem to suggest. It's not as simple as for Kear or against Kear or for Ted or against Ted there are many grey areas inbetween and as mentioned above what we as fans can actually do about it.

I guess on here I would be considered pro Kear and the club just because I don't believe that Kear is a double agent sent to destroy us from within! I am very critical of the way the club is run and the amateur set up we have in many areas but as I don't know the ins and outs of the finances of the club and of any potential change in ownership I feel pretty powerless do anything about it save from stop going which doesn't really help in my opinion. As for Kear I would still give him next season to try and sort it out I still believe he has earnt that right. However I do understand why people have decided that enough is enough this season as the performances have been terrible and therefore I could understand if Kear was replaced at the end of the season. My only problem with this for me is back to Ted and co and do I trust them to make the right appointment and I don't I just know they will go for the cheapest option possible which could make things even worse, though I accept it couldn't get much worse! So the problem again comes to the ownership of the club but as I say above what are the alternatives and waht can we do about it?

The other thing is it's easy to have snide digs at Vastman for only coming on when things are going well but I'd take one Vastman over the scores of folk that only come on when things are going badly and seem to actually enjoy sticking the boot and I sense want us to lose so they can come on and bitch and moan about how terrible things are. If you think I have any wish to stand side by side and have one voice with such people then you are sadly mistaken.

Thats a fair old post JT

Re: Sick of the cheap option. : Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:15 am  

GET EM ON SIDE REF wrote:

iI have no problem with top being able to sign the top stars that’s life but I do expect to see us bringing our junior players in and developing them into stars EG Ellis Westwood Brough having done that the next stage is to keep them
Starting with Murphy

Easier said than done when you've got agents offering to get them more money at other clubs, clubs which have bigger cheque books and more cash to splash.

Re: Sick of the cheap option. : Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:42 am  

J.T wrote:

Who is this hardcore who will let the club do what they want? What action are you suggesting for us all to have 'one voice'? For everybody just to stop going? Not evrybodies position is as black and white as your postings seem to suggest. It's not as simple as for Kear or against Kear or for Ted or against Ted there are many grey areas inbetween and as mentioned above what we as fans can actually do about it.

I guess on here I would be considered pro Kear and the club just because I don't believe that Kear is a double agent sent to destroy us from within! I am very critical of the way the club is run and the amateur set up we have in many areas but as I don't know the ins and outs of the finances of the club and of any potential change in ownership I feel pretty powerless do anything about it save from stop going which doesn't really help in my opinion. As for Kear I would still give him next season to try and sort it out I still believe he has earnt that right. However I do understand why people have decided that enough is enough this season as the performances have been terrible and therefore I could understand if Kear was replaced at the end of the season. My only problem with this for me is back to Ted and co and do I trust them to make the right appointment and I don't I just know they will go for the cheapest option possible which could make things even worse, though I accept it couldn't get much worse! So the problem again comes to the ownership of the club but as I say above what are the alternatives and waht can we do about it?

The other thing is it's easy to have snide digs at Vastman for only coming on when things are going well but I'd take one Vastman over the scores of folk that only come on when things are going badly and seem to actually enjoy sticking the boot and I sense want us to lose so they can come on and bitch and moan about how terrible things are. If you think I have any wish to stand side by side and have one voice with such people then you are sadly mistaken.

I am suggesting that whilst ever people are prepared to put up with the way the club is run, nothing will change. Therefore if we put aside our differences, and say enough is enough in sufficient numbers, changes would be more likely to be made.

Kears position is quite simple as far as I see it - he wanted out and since then the performances have really gone downhill and he hasn't been able to reverse the trend/solve the glaringly obvious problems. I am grateful to him for what he has done in the past, but we cannot afford to dwell in the past - professional sport is about the here and now. I also think loyalty is a two way thing, had JK turned down Catalans to stay with us and not gone after the Bradford job, then I might be more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

As I understand it (based on what others have said in the past), Ted has not put money into the club for a number of years and we are self-sufficient. This being the case, then whilst it is accepted someone with cash to inject is whats really needed to take us to the next level. Getting someone in who could make the set-up operate more professionally would at least be an improvement on where we are now and enable us to function as best we can with what we have.

As for the Vastman comment, you seem to defend him, yet some of the stuff he posts on here to anyone who has the temerity to disagree with the way the club is run or his opinion, is far more offensive than what I put regarding him getting frustrated about not being able to come on and provide his usual rants.

I think you will find that in all the posts I have ever put on here, none of them are offensive about other posters or their opinions, in the same way a number of Vastmans are.

I am sure that everyone on here wants the same thing, but have different views as to how to go about it. My view is that maintaining the status quo is only going to allow us to standstill at best and that we should aspire to be better and I make no apologies for that fact.

There are a large number of people voicing their frustrations about the current predicament and some of them are well respected on here (and rightly so as fans of many many years) - they are not moaning for the sake of moaning and I am sure like me they do not take any pleasure from the fact we are where we are.

Re: Sick of the cheap option. : Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:12 pm  

Tricky2309 wrote:

I am suggesting that whilst ever people are prepared to put up with the way the club is run, nothing will change. Therefore if we put aside our differences, and say enough is enough in sufficient numbers, changes would be more likely to be made.

Kears position is quite simple as far as I see it - he wanted out and since then the performances have really gone downhill and he hasn't been able to reverse the trend/solve the glaringly obvious problems. I am grateful to him for what he has done in the past, but we cannot afford to dwell in the past - professional sport is about the here and now. I also think loyalty is a two way thing, had JK turned down Catalans to stay with us and not gone after the Bradford job, then I might be more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

As I understand it (based on what others have said in the past), Ted has not put money into the club for a number of years and we are self-sufficient. This being the case, then whilst it is accepted someone with cash to inject is whats really needed to take us to the next level. Getting someone in who could make the set-up operate more professionally would at least be an improvement on where we are now and enable us to function as best we can with what we have.

As for the Vastman comment, you seem to defend him, yet some of the stuff he posts on here to anyone who has the temerity to disagree with the way the club is run or his opinion, is far more offensive than what I put regarding him getting frustrated about not being able to come on and provide his usual rants.

I think you will find that in all the posts I have ever put on here, none of them are offensive about other posters or their opinions, in the same way a number of Vastmans are.

I am sure that everyone on here wants the same thing, but have different views as to how to go about it. My view is that maintaining the status quo is only going to allow us to standstill at best and that we should aspire to be better and I make no apologies for that fact.

There are a large number of people voicing their frustrations about the current predicament and some of them are well respected on here (and rightly so as fans of many many years) - they are not moaning for the sake of moaning and I am sure like me they do not take any pleasure from the fact we are where we are.

Thats something thats crossed my mind lately, i don't doubt he's done it in the past (funded) and as always had the clubs best interests at heart but like you say if we are self sufficient then can we improve the running of the club in some way or are we being held back by Ted.

In the main thats true but we do have a few posters who log in for that reason and that reason alone, call them trolls if you like but remember they don't always wear opposing colours