Re: Belle Vue back on? : Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:42 pm  

dull nickname wrote:

If we get more than nowt or something less bad than what we have now i'll jig a merry jig.

And that's exactly the position that WMDC and YC wanted us to be in; drive us to the edge of a cliff so that any rescue package, no matter how crap, feels like a win.

Re: Belle Vue back on? : Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:00 pm  

bren2k wrote:

And that's exactly the position that WMDC and YC wanted us to be in; drive us to the edge of a cliff so that any rescue package, no matter how crap, feels like a win.

With the clock ticking again, especially with a possible change in structure and potential changes to the criteria needed for the top flight, this exactly what WMDC and Yorkcourt have done (again).
Our local authority have been utterly inept at enforcing the 106 agreement and quite frankly, one doesn't have any faith that any new deal will ever happen.

Re: Belle Vue back on? : Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:02 pm  

Jizzer wrote:

I'd have to disagree. I know we all have an emotional connection to Belle Vue, but the site is very limited as we know, especially with the other plans Manni has for the site....not to mention that the area is a dump. Next to the M62 provides great accessibility for everyone and potential for expansion - each to their own though. As long as we get something, I will be happy.

Could you explain how NM provides great accessibility for everyone please.

What has the "area being a dump" got to do with it? we're not playing on Agbrigg road the team will be playing on arguably the best surface in SL, and what are these other plans this manni's got in mind if as you say it's a very limited site.

Re: Belle Vue back on? : Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:29 pm  

little wayne69 wrote:

Could you explain how NM provides great accessibility for everyone please.

What has the "area being a dump" got to do with it? we're not playing on Agbrigg road the team will be playing on arguably the best surface in SL, and what are these other plans this manni's got in mind if as you say it's a very limited site.

NM is more accessible for travelling fans for sure - as well as being much better in terms of disabled access, ease of use for people with kids etc; and if the proposed park and ride service from the City Centre had gone ahead, that would have helped a lot of people who don't drive to games.

As for the BV site - if anyone believes for a minute that 88M will develop it as a standalone project without any additional revenue streams for themselves, they are in cloud cuckoo land; he's a property developer, not a charity, so at the very least he's going to want retail and leisure opportunities that he can manage completely independently of whatever rent he sets for the stadium itself. That will limit the floorspace he's willing to sacrifice for stadium facilities - or he'll want a piece of whatever goes on inside the stadium that generates income.

Be under no illusion - it's the worst of all outcomes, and will be very limiting for the club; but since WMDC and YC have created desperation, it's now being seen as cause for celebration by some fans - which sets MC up nicely to be portrayed as ungrateful and intransigent if he's not happy with whatever is offered. We've been stitched right up.

Re: Belle Vue back on? : Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:32 pm  

little wayne69 wrote:

Could you explain how NM provides great accessibility for everyone please.

A stadium right next to the M62, in which a sport is played which is largely concentrated along the M62. It should certainly appeal to the away fans.

Re: Belle Vue back on? : Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:36 pm  

bren2k wrote:

We've been stitched right up.

That's how I see it. When all else has failed, any old solution to the problem will feel like a result.

Re: Belle Vue back on? : Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:41 pm  

little wayne69 wrote:

Could you explain how NM provides great accessibility for everyone please.

What has the "area being a dump" got to do with it? we're not playing on Agbrigg road the team will be playing on arguably the best surface in SL, and what are these other plans this manni's got in mind if as you say it's a very limited site.

The simple fact that it's right next to one of the main corridors that connects some of the 'big' cities in the north - the M62! Also there being enough space to set aside for people to actually park without having to plonk it on some random street, getting in and out would be alot easier too I imagine.
Last time I heard, Manni was planning on putting apartment blocks and shops on the site around the proposed new ground. Doesn't leave much space for the ground, let alone access, parking, training pitches, ground expansion etc. Fair enough, the comment about Agbrigg being a dump is mainly cosmetic. However, lets be honest, if you had to choose a place to play every week you'd rather it be Rome than Syria wouldn't you?

We can can cling onto the 'best playing surface in SL' thing all we like, however it doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.

Re: Belle Vue back on? : Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:00 pm  

Jizzer wrote:

I'd have to disagree. I know we all have an emotional connection to Belle Vue, but the site is very limited as we know, especially with the other plans Manni has for the site....not to mention that the area is a dump. Next to the M62 provides great accessibility for everyone and potential for expansion - each to their own though. As long as we get something, I will be happy.

I have to dispute you last assertion - one thing NM doesn't offer is good access, far from it and that has been recognised as an issue.

Out of town stadiums by and large have been failures with the only people to really benefit being away fans. Large numbers of home fans are often lost.

As far as I'm aware NM has no rail links and sporadic bus services. It is in many ways an ideal site but it is not perfect and this particular issue is its Achilles heal so to speak and has even been a bone of contention amongst Swag members.

Overall NM is the best option but done right BV is workable - sadly the chances of it being done right are very slim

Re: Belle Vue back on? : Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:14 pm  

King Street Cat wrote:

A stadium right next to the M62, in which a sport is played which is largely concentrated along the M62. It should certainly appeal to the away fans.

Funny you should say that because on a map the AJ Bell should be the most accessible of grounds in terms of ease of use for the travelling fans.. Probably a similar distance of a M62 junction to what Newmarket would/will be. I avoid driving to Salford at all costs, and if i do i dont use any of the parking facilities near by as access in and especially out is an absolute nightmare as many of us have had to experience - I actually end up parking around a 25/30 minute walk away, in the back of some dodgy estate were im risking leaving my car.

Wakefield Kirgate is 0.9 miles from the ground
Sandal and Agbrigg 0.7 miles from the ground
Wakefield Westgate is 1.6 miles from the ground
Regular buses running down right past the ground.

Now i accept that the opportunity for expansion isnt as great as it would be at Newmarket, and parking isn't seen as great, but i usually turn up 10 minutes before kick off and get a space roadside round the back of the graveyards... Does anyone else have a problem? I cant remember one time where i have had any issues with getting a space, even when playing Cas/Leeds. With development should we require additional parking there are acres of space about a 3 minute walk down the road just of the relief road that will be shortly become available for lease.

Re: Belle Vue back on? : Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:20 pm  

vastman wrote:

I have to dispute you last assertion - one thing NM doesn't offer is good access, far from it and that has been recognised as an issue.

Out of town stadiums by and large have been failures with the only people to really benefit being away fans. Large numbers of home fans are often lost.

As far as I'm aware NM has no rail links and sporadic bus services. It is in many ways an ideal site but it is not perfect and this particular issue is its Achilles heal so to speak and has even been a bone of contention amongst Swag members.

Overall NM is the best option but done right BV is workable - sadly the chances of it being done right are very slim

I'm coming from the stand point of someone who drives to Belle Vue from outside Wakefield. Most people who work in Leeds, Huddersfield, Hull etc. would most likely prefer to be closer to the M62 if they drive to work on a daily basis - for the same reason why I think the ground would be more accessible there. However, I understand why this may not be desirable for people who get a train to Kirkgate and/or walk to the ground, or get a bus.

Whether it'd be a flop were we to end up at Newmarket, we'd have to see - although we probably won't, as the council obviously wants the developer to have all of this land to themselves. However weighing everything up, Newmarket is the best option IMHO - doesn't seem like we have much of a choice though.