Re: Disappointed isn't the word!!! : Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:55 pm  

kinleycat wrote:

Is it beyond the realms of fantasy that SoS could give the go ahead for NM sooner than we expect given assurances from YK and WTW or is it deffo gonna be about a year?

That is Fantasy. The decision has been made to go for a PI nothing will reverse that (Possilbly unless the application is withwrawn).

The "average" timescale is 56 weeks and it could take up to 74 weeks

Re: Disappointed isn't the word!!! : Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:09 pm  

Speedy wrote:

Here you go again, beyiond my understanding...... what a pr!ck you really are

Its like trying to hammer a nail in a knot trying to explain anything to you

Speedy wrote:

If the polecat stadium is still owned by the club, why do you have to move out after this year?

They don't have to, it was hoped that everything would run smoothly with NM allowing the club to either move into the new stadium or use another ground short term until it was ready hth

Speedy wrote:

As for Cas being fractionally ahead, well you are suffering from delusions of grandeur pal

No more than you squire, according to some of you that £2 million Quid you got of the council last week will go to the millions already in the bank from the massive amount you have just recieved from BB homes for the sale of WR, I forgot you can't sell it for the amount you need to build the new stadium. In all probability the money you got from Wakey council will just about pay for the pp and the fines incured by some of your wonderful fans for the homephobic chanting and the bottle throwing incidents tbf though they were only plastic

Speedy wrote:

Yorkcourt or anyone else cannot even turn a grass sod on the area in question, Unlike the Outline Planning Permission given to Cas, work has been done the area in question, where work has been done on the plateau. Full Planning permission application will be going by the end on next week at the latest (I was told that personally by a councillor last night) So on the ground issue Cas are quite a bit in front of the polecats in that instance.

Its one thing having pp its another thing having the money to build it, so until all the money is in then only in someones empty head are you in front

Speedy wrote:

As for your plan B, A lot of you seem to be in the opinion that you are moving to Oakwell, Have the club actually talked to the Barnsley Council about this move, or even the tenants Barnsley FC, because if you talk to their fans, the majority don’t even know about this?

For your imformation BMBC are only part owners of Oakwell, Mr Patrick Cryne the owner of Barnsley FC owns the other half, so therefore you would think that WTW would be talking to both interested parties and not the fans as it is not a co-operative hth

Speedy wrote:

If you do play out of Oakwell, have you got any ideas of what it will cost in rent? How many of your fans will travel to Barnsley given that your numbers have fallen significantly at BV ?

For somebody as imformed as you seem to be you ask a lot of questions, do you know for definate that we are going to Oakwell or is that an assumption of yours based on what you have heard, so anybody with an ounce of common sense would not ask how many will be traveling there until its comfirmed we are keep up rodney you plonker

Re: Disappointed isn't the word!!! : Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:14 pm  

Seems Speedys attempt at creating some anti Wakey/RL feeling amongst Barnsley FC fans has back fired. http://barnsleyfc.org.uk/bbs/forums/for ... .asp?fid=1 Feeling on the BFC forum seems to be positive to the prospect!

Seems Speedys attempt at creating some anti Wakey/RL feeling amongst Barnsley FC fans has back fired. http://barnsleyfc.org.uk/bbs/forums/for ... .asp?fid=1 Feeling on the BFC forum seems to be positive to the prospect!

Re: Disappointed isn't the word!!! : Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:29 pm  

Speedy should worry about his own teams hurdles they have to overcome instead of gloating on here. We know things arent great, but some people are going to take positives and look on the bright side of things. People are going to look for hope where they can find it. Anyway isnt it Speedy who gets upset when supporters of other clubs go on ths cas site?

Re: Disappointed isn't the word!!! : Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:31 pm  

Some points that i think have been missed are as follows:

1. This talk of plan B could be very reasonable and would put you in a position to meet the criteria - however what is currently stopping Cas from adopting a similar approach. It was rumoured that Cas were looking at the possibility of moving short term to the Keepmoat Stadium. This would surly put cas on a par with Wakefield. Then we would be ahead of Wakefield by virtue of having cast iron plans for GH.

2. There is likely to be a shortfall in the funds required for the whole GH at this point in time. However stadiums can be built and therefore be paid for in stages. The minimum criteria was a 10,000 capacity which is all under cover with seats. The proposed GH stadium is 13,000 meaning that three stands could be built with out the forth being complete until funds are available. This is roughly 3/4 of the cost which is circa £9m. £5m from the ground (the contract signed was for £6.9m and was undervalued in the eyes of many at the time - land has fallen roughly 40-30% meaning £5m is not to bad estimate) £2m from the council £1m already put in from Waystone re initial development of the plateau and then £1m from naming rights. This does not sound to far fetched to me.

The NM proposal was to be financed by the sale of the units i believe i.e. the developer would incur the cost of the stadium from profits generated from the remainder of the development. Question is where would the £20m come from.

Yorkcourt certainly don’t have those funds knocking around spare. Answer - from deposits prehaps for the warehousing? Question back is - will those deposits actually cover £20m. If not then from the sale of units? Would you pay £xm upfront for a warehouse that is yet to be built and which you know full well know is actually going to fund a stadium to begin with. I would not given there is adequate warehousing already empty in the area.

This means Yorkcourt would have to fund it from bank loans - i think you would agree not the easiest thing to do currently.

Given the above one may argue that funding issues would exist over the current plans.

I do not intend to gloat or anything like that but as you will see from the above these are serious comments

Re: Disappointed isn't the word!!! : Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:12 pm  

J20 wrote:

Obviously a very dissapointing day for your club so I won't go on. But being out of SL isn't the end of your clubs existance, see: Widnes (grown as a club) Leigh (new ground) Halifax (rising crowds) as examples of that. If your going to say no SL and I aint bothering any more, why do you in the first place? This project always seemed on an extremely tight timescale and one knock back could see SL 2012 at a major threat, but hey you just move on, even if administration is needed you use it as a why to clean up the club and re build (as Widnes have). Less of income has to go on first team and you get your self in prime posistion for a bid in 2015 in Newmarket!

I'm sorry but I can't agree that the Championship is an exciting and vibrant competition.
It is dying on it's booty.
The salary cap has been reduced to the extent that all clubs can now afford to raise squads that reach the cap limit meaning that the competition is far more open.
But crowds are seriously on the wane. Even the Halifax figure you pointed out was only reached with them handing out thousands of free tickets and counting them within their attendance figures regardless of whether the recipient turned up or not.

Most games feature a small band of away supporters meaning that there is a real difficulty in generating any real atmosphere.
If you do have one of the bigger games in the league you face appearing on SKY on Thursday night which will seriously affect your crowd numbers and you receive next to nothing for the privilege.

If you are one of the clubs that sticks within the salary cap there is a real difficulty in building a squad with a number of teams having to resort to measures like taking dual registered players to make up the numbers.

Clubs receive pittance from the RFL and I'm afraid that I agree that once you are out of SL then you might struggle to return, especially considering the noises coming out of Cumbria and Toulouse.

On a personal note. I am disappointed for you, and hopefully you will have a plan B to carry on operating if the worst happens.

Re: Disappointed isn't the word!!! : Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:56 pm  

altofts wildcat wrote:

Thinking about it, unless Cas get their ground built we will be ahead of them in terms of frnchise applications in my opinion. Presuming it is Oakwell we will be playing at, that is a better ground than the Jungle and it also meets Super League criteria.

So i think we all need to keep the faith because the way i see it, we will be playing in a super league standard stadium come 2012 but i wont be the one we were all hoping for, however i believe that we wont mind playing Barnsley for a while so long as it keeps us in super league.

Part of the licensing Criteria is to show that you have a operational capacity of 10,000 + a minimum of a 10 year lease with the stadia if rented.

Re: Disappointed isn't the word!!! : Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:11 pm  

The Clan wrote:

then comes the problems of actually funding the build which Castleford cannot do at this moment in time.

....and how do you know that castleford cant find funding at this moment in time.
Are you privy to the tigers finances. Or are you just hoping and praying they cant.

Mark my words ALL funding is in place.

Re: Disappointed isn't the word!!! : Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:33 pm  

feline wrote:

Yes my feelings exactly also pressure on the RFL , how can nearly 140 years of sporting history and all the hard work of our community dept etc just get tossed aside by them at Red Hall

Exactly the Same way Fax and Widnes have. I hope you survive, However i am some of you know what it feels like with the shoe on the other foot !!!

Re: Disappointed isn't the word!!! : Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:35 pm  

Hatfield tiger wrote:

Some points that i think have been missed are as follows:

1. This talk of plan B could be very reasonable and would put you in a position to meet the criteria - however what is currently stopping Cas from adopting a similar approach. It was rumoured that Cas were looking at the possibility of moving short term to the Keepmoat Stadium. This would surly put cas on a par with Wakefield. Then we would be ahead of Wakefield by virtue of having cast iron plans for GH.

2. There is likely to be a shortfall in the funds required for the whole GH at this point in time. However stadiums can be built and therefore be paid for in stages. The minimum criteria was a 10,000 capacity which is all under cover with seats. The proposed GH stadium is 13,000 meaning that three stands could be built with out the forth being complete until funds are available. This is roughly 3/4 of the cost which is circa £9m. £5m from the ground (the contract signed was for £6.9m and was undervalued in the eyes of many at the time - land has fallen roughly 40-30% meaning £5m is not to bad estimate) £2m from the council £1m already put in from Waystone re initial development of the plateau and then £1m from naming rights. This does not sound to far fetched to me.

The NM proposal was to be financed by the sale of the units i believe i.e. the developer would incur the cost of the stadium from profits generated from the remainder of the development. Question is where would the £20m come from.

Yorkcourt certainly don’t have those funds knocking around spare. Answer - from deposits prehaps for the warehousing? Question back is - will those deposits actually cover £20m. If not then from the sale of units? Would you pay £xm upfront for a warehouse that is yet to be built and which you know full well know is actually going to fund a stadium to begin with. I would not given there is adequate warehousing already empty in the area.

This means Yorkcourt would have to fund it from bank loans - i think you would agree not the easiest thing to do currently.

Given the above one may argue that funding issues would exist over the current plans.

I do not intend to gloat or anything like that but as you will see from the above these are serious comments

Good post and in some respects your figures look ok, but the land value makes no difference because I suspect you will not and never own the land at GH... you will have a long term lease deal on the land... exactly like the community trust on the Newmarket stadium BTW.

Also, your view on Yorkcourt (same goes for Waystone BTW), developments of this size and how they are funded lacks knowledge (I am not having a go for not knowing BTW... unless you work in this field, most people don't understand the business model) of how they are funded and ultimate make money and profit. These guys are it for the reasonably long term and are looking to make a return for their investors over maybe 25+ years and the whole site itself would take at least 5 years to fill and more likely 10 years. They don't borrow money but gain investment for the development from banks, insurance and most importantly pension funds. So while it might cost them (well, actually their investment partners) money to build the stadium in the short term the long term value of the land, which they will retain ownership of, and the wider development will start to deliver profit as it is developed. With interest rates very low, if you are a pension fund and looking for a low risk investment to tie money up for 25 years plus with an almost guaranteed better return than giving it to a bank, then this type of investment is a great deal!