Re: Public Meeting Confirmed for 22nd April - Cats : Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:48 am  

newgroundb4wakey wrote:

I more or less agree with every thing that is being said on here about the club being shafted but at the time of the PI the residents of Newmarket were being portrayed as NIMBY's and a certain lady was getting the dogs abuse on here for objecting.

She had every right to object and she was given ample opportunity. The WMDC/Secretary of State having considered hers and other objections decided to the planning application in the public enquiry on the basis of the benefits that the S106 agreement would provide.

On that basis the Newmarket residents would be imposed with a development approx 80%? industrial units and 20%? Community facilities - hard to swallow for them, but that is what was approved.

How hard must it now be for them to swallow the fact that it will probably end up as 100% Industrial units and 0% Community facilities?

Not sure how they may feel about that, but perhaps they are laughing their socks off at the rugby fans misfortune.

They were duped, as were we Wakefield fans and Wakefield constituents as this was all a cleverly devised plan to do exactly what has happened.

Re: Public Meeting Confirmed for 22nd April - Cats : Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:33 am  

So, I was looking at Joanne Roney's response to Mary Creagh's letter and then looking at the s106 document.
The thing that gets me is her parting shot:
"However, the delivery of a new facility is principally a matter for the Trust not the Council"

It was a unilateral offer, ok, but it was prompted by a planning requirement from the SoS and it's a planning obligation directed to WMDC as the planning authority for the project. WMDC are in charge of planning matters for the district. This is a planning matter. The trust are only named in the s106 as facilitators for the delivery of stadium, they have no authority to enforce a s106, that's WMDC's job. The trust are there to organise the build, not enforce planning criteria.

One other thing, which worries me. The s106 has two criteria for the trigger. The 60000 sq.m. and the £2million 'stadium payment'. It states, "the entering into of a funding agreement between the Council and the Trust to make the Stadium Payment to the Trust OR the Trust demonstrating to the satisfaction of the Developer that it has secured additional funding of an equivalent amount". Which means if the council no longer want to stump up, and even if 60000sqm is built, we'd have to find the £2million ourselves.

It seems we are still having difficulty getting our side of the story out. The initial press response was particularly disappointing.
Would it be worth organising a publicity day on the Precinct? Similar to the petition day, which was a great success, but this time distributing (carefully worded) leaflets, (checked by a lawyer?)
If possible, the day before the Leigh cup tie would be ideal.
Include little scaremongering/reality check about the precarious position we find ourselves in and the real threat to the very existence of the club. Something along the lines of "last chance to see" as it really could be the last time Trinity appear on national TV, ever! Direct them to the ridings shop to buy tickets for the match and show their support (at discount prices). It could also be an opportunity to get people to join the Supporters' Trust and 1873 lottery and direct people to the social media that is out there.

It's easy for me to say from 8000 miles away because I won't be doing the organising or even handing out the leaflets, but worth a shot?
Thanks again for all your hard work, but keep going!

Re: Public Meeting Confirmed for 22nd April - Cats : Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:26 am  

coco the fullback wrote:

So, I was looking at Joanne Roney's response to Mary Creagh's letter and then looking at the s106 document.
The thing that gets me is her parting shot:
"However, the delivery of a new facility is principally a matter for the Trust not the Council"

It was a unilateral offer, ok, but it was prompted by a planning requirement from the SoS and it's a planning obligation directed to WMDC as the planning authority for the project. WMDC are in charge of planning matters for the district. This is a planning matter. The trust are only named in the s106 as facilitators for the delivery of stadium, they have no authority to enforce a s106, that's WMDC's job. The trust are there to organise the build, not enforce planning criteria.

One other thing, which worries me. The s106 has two criteria for the trigger. The 60000 sq.m. and the £2million 'stadium payment'. It states, "the entering into of a funding agreement between the Council and the Trust to make the Stadium Payment to the Trust OR the Trust demonstrating to the satisfaction of the Developer that it has secured additional funding of an equivalent amount". Which means if the council no longer want to stump up, and even if 60000sqm is built, we'd have to find the £2million ourselves.

It seems we are still having difficulty getting our side of the story out. The initial press response was particularly disappointing.
Would it be worth organising a publicity day on the Precinct? Similar to the petition day, which was a great success, but this time distributing (carefully worded) leaflets, (checked by a lawyer?)
If possible, the day before the Leigh cup tie would be ideal.
Include little scaremongering/reality check about the precarious position we find ourselves in and the real threat to the very existence of the club. Something along the lines of "last chance to see" as it really could be the last time Trinity appear on national TV, ever! Direct them to the ridings shop to buy tickets for the match and show their support (at discount prices). It could also be an opportunity to get people to join the Supporters' Trust and 1873 lottery and direct people to the social media that is out there.

It's easy for me to say from 8000 miles away because I won't be doing the organising or even handing out the leaflets, but worth a shot?
Thanks again for all your hard work, but keep going!

The wording regarding the 'Stadium Payment' was altered by WMDC to leave it open to give the council a get out clause for the £2m that it 'committed' to paying elsewhere in the PI. However, they didn't alter it in the definitions section of the same document which states - '"Stadium Payment" Means the sum of £2,000,000 to be paid by the Council to the Trust as part funding for the Stadium.'


Remember - this is a document which WMDC had no part in drafting or agreeing as that was down to the SoS (!!!)

Fundamentally, we believe that the councils own actions have left it in a position where it is potentially unable to enforce the developer to stump up. The developer has offered financial assistance, but in a manner suggesting he is doing us a favour and certainly not the extent nor timescales that we require - or were promised / committed to.

All things are possible, but the campaign will go on for much longer than the GE, so we don't want to play all our cards at this stage. The Leigh match does seem a good opportunity, on live terrestrial TV to get lots of banners out and [Stevo mode] get the message out! [/Stevo mode]

Re: Public Meeting Confirmed for 22nd April - Cats : Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:16 pm  

TRB wrote:

The wording regarding the 'Stadium Payment' was altered by WMDC to leave it open to give the council a get out clause for the £2m that it 'committed' to paying elsewhere in the PI. However, they didn't alter it in the definitions section of the same document which states - '"Stadium Payment" Means the sum of £2,000,000 to be paid by the Council to the Trust as part funding for the Stadium.'


Remember - this is a document which WMDC had no part in drafting or agreeing as that was down to the SoS (!!!)

Fundamentally, we believe that the councils own actions have left it in a position where it is potentially unable to enforce the developer to stump up. The developer has offered financial assistance, but in a manner suggesting he is doing us a favour and certainly not the extent nor timescales that we require - or were promised / committed to.

All things are possible, but the campaign will go on for much longer than the GE, so we don't want to play all our cards at this stage. The Leigh match does seem a good opportunity, on live terrestrial TV to get lots of banners out and [Stevo mode] get the message out! [/Stevo mode]

Are you going for a case of all or nothing or would there be any mileage in accepting something rather than nothing? For example if Yorkcourt came and said they would buy back Belle Vue along with the surrounding land which is for sale and donate it to the club/trust would that be acceptable given it would instantly save the club 125K a year and ensure we were not homeless or would have to leave the city which is a death sentance? Plus it would save on a expensive legal battle that has no guarantee of a win at the end of it and would at least ensure the club survives in some way. Is it feasible? There would be no money to redevelop right now obviuosly but if it's Newmarket or bust it's probably going before a judge and if and we lose then Belle Vue will have to be ditched, the club moves and shortly after the club dies.

Re: Public Meeting Confirmed for 22nd April - Cats : Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:25 pm  

Theboyem wrote:

Are you going for a case of all or nothing or would there be any mileage in accepting something rather than nothing? For example if Yorkcourt came and said they would buy back Belle Vue along with the surrounding land which is for sale and donate it to the club/trust would that be acceptable given it would instantly save the club 125K a year and ensure we were not homeless or would have to leave the city which is a death sentance? Plus it would save on a expensive legal battle that has no guarantee of a win at the end of it and would at least ensure the club survives in some way. Is it feasible? There would be no money to redevelop right now obviuosly but if it's Newmarket or bust it's probably going before a judge and if and we lose then Belle Vue will have to be ditched, the club moves and shortly after the club dies.

Along with a small amount of funding from the developer and then an agreement from the council to reinstate the £2 Million and underight a redevelopment loan to the club that might be a way forward.

One things for sure, the arrogance of some characters involved will not allow them to completely lose face and their position of authority. A back door way out might need to be provided in order to make a resolution paletable

Re: Public Meeting Confirmed for 22nd April - Cats : Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:29 pm  

Theboyem wrote:

Are you going for a case of all or nothing or would there be any mileage in accepting something rather than nothing? For example if Yorkcourt came and said they would buy back Belle Vue along with the surrounding land which is for sale and donate it to the club/trust would that be acceptable given it would instantly save the club 125K a year and ensure we were not homeless or would have to leave the city which is a death sentance? Plus it would save on a expensive legal battle that has no guarantee of a win at the end of it and would at least ensure the club survives in some way. Is it feasible? There would be no money to redevelop right now obviuosly but if it's Newmarket or bust it's probably going before a judge and if and we lose then Belle Vue will have to be ditched, the club moves and shortly after the club dies.

Good point - me I'd bite their hand off but I don't know what TRB and IA do or how that leaves the Trust and the club etc.

Re: Public Meeting Confirmed for 22nd April - Cats : Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:33 pm  

vastman wrote:

Good point - me I'd bite their hand off but I don't know what TRB and IA do or how that leaves the Trust and the club etc.

At least its a start and gives us a future. It also means that we could all be it slowly redevelop the ground as Featherstone's has. Never been convinced by this minimum standard stuff. Frankly if we had at least two modern stands a bit more parking I don't think you'd get a peep off the RFL. Just my opinion.

Re: Public Meeting Confirmed for 22nd April - Cats : Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:09 pm  

The Avenger wrote:

Along with a small amount of funding from the developer and then an agreement from the council to reinstate the £2 Million and underight a redevelopment loan to the club that might be a way forward.

One things for sure, the arrogance of some characters involved will not allow them to completely lose face and their position of authority. A back door way out might need to be provided in order to make a resolution paletable

I agree this scenario sounds a decent compromise. I think as we are the chances of getting everthing we want (maybe anything if it's a court battle) are probably zero so we are going to have to find some middle ground somewhere otherwise we are screwed. If as TRB has said the developer has offered something already then there is maybe scope to get something out of it with some negotiation. The council will probably claim that the £2 million is unaffordable but it could be paid to the trust in half a million installments over four years and ring-fenced for ground development which could be carried out piecemeal over a longer period. Featherstone is a great example of what can be done and their ground now is a credit to the people there.

Is it ideal? No, but it's better that the club disappearing altogether and must be worth a try. Wakefield Trinity live to fight another day, Yorkcourt get the land at Newmarket and the council get the wider kudos of appearing that they helped make it happen, even if ultimately we will know different.

Re: Public Meeting Confirmed for 22nd April - Cats : Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:27 pm  

Theboyem wrote:

Are you going for a case of all or nothing or would there be any mileage in accepting something rather than nothing? For example if Yorkcourt came and said they would buy back Belle Vue along with the surrounding land which is for sale and donate it to the club/trust would that be acceptable given it would instantly save the club 125K a year and ensure we were not homeless or would have to leave the city which is a death sentance? Plus it would save on a expensive legal battle that has no guarantee of a win at the end of it and would at least ensure the club survives in some way. Is it feasible? There would be no money to redevelop right now obviuosly but if it's Newmarket or bust it's probably going before a judge and if and we lose then Belle Vue will have to be ditched, the club moves and shortly after the club dies.

We are willing to negotiate. That's what the Stadium Trust has been doing for the past year or so and you may recall put a compromise of an 8,000, 2 stand stadium but that was rejected. Yorkcourt made an offer which was unaccepable to the Trust.

Just remember that if we get Belle Vue back and acquire Superbowl Belle Vue is a long way off compying with the new more relaxed Super League minimum standards and would require £m's spending on it to bring it up to those standards. You may get Belle Vue back but without further funds I think we would be consigned to the Championship until BV could be upgraded but agaun where would the funding come from.

No one wants expensive and risky litigatation and that applies I'm sure to the Council and Yorkcourt but if a deal is reached it has to ensure the survival of the Club in a fit for purpose stadium whether thats at Newmarket of Belle Vue. If that cannot be secured by negotiation then fighting through the Courts may be all that's left to us.

Re: Public Meeting Confirmed for 22nd April - Cats : Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:38 pm  

Out of interest what was the offer? Having a home, albeit in the championship, is a far greater outcome than a nomadic existence or no club at all.