Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Fri Dec 08, 2023 9:48 pm  

Luppylad wrote:

Its not that simple PT how many penalties for head i do you see where contact starts below the head but the force moves the arm up well there will be more of that now add to this the ball carrier just simply dips just before contact to win the penalty.you get a stop start games we where looking at 70 to 80 penalties a game thats why it will suffer i attended games last season with the rules and there not enjoyable add to this players were still getting headknocks but from tackeling and getting knees in the head

This is the crux of it. Most head injuries with players having to leave the pitch in SL I have seen have happened from hip level tackles where the head was in wrong position (Batchelor at magic) or two players going low and clashing heads.

I am actually struggling to recall many hard head shots in SL this season. Direct hits to the head are much rarer these past 2 seasons.

The simple fact is the player with the ball will have less risk but the defending players will have exponentially increased risk. Why??? They will be having to lower their own heads potentially to the height of a ball carriers forearm/elbow or hips (a reason why some I suspect avoid putting their heads there so they don’t cop a head knock).

I actually predict head knocks will rise… what then?

The issue is the RFL and insurers are reacting to players old head injuries from years ago when there were punch ups, stiff arms to the face and shoulder challenges. The game these days is much more controlled to the point where I expect far fewer of current SL players would suffer long term effects.

As I say the risk is from before the game evolved into what it is now. Which I think is sufficient as a fan. Players presently are much more protected than they were even 5 years ago.

If the premium is 1.4 million. I’m afraid I would pay it and just take 80k off each SL club or ask each SL. Club to sacrifice short term and do a comprehensive study over 2/3 seasons to evidence how head injuries are a much rarer occurrence and dealt with much more professionally than they were years ago with a view to bringing down that premium.

Feels like a very knee jerk reaction in some respects.

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:01 pm  

Alot of players are moaning

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:08 pm  

Luppylad wrote:

Alot of players are moaning

Can’t say I’d be happy if as a defender I’d have to put my head in body in a more vulnerable position either. At least with head up you can judge better and keep away from brutal head collision with own players and incidents like that at Magic (Jane’s Batchelor).

Also if two players went low on me I’d literally just offload the ball which I’m sure would be easier with less attention up high.

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:43 pm  

It's an absolute farce but it doesn't surprise me that there are some I could have predicted defending it.

[PopTart]

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Fri Dec 08, 2023 10:50 pm  

It's not a matter of defending it. It's just the way it is.
Once the ex players started a law suit the game, as well as other sports would be bankrupt unless they followed the advice.

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:52 am  

Watched a couple of games from the 80s this morning and 20 mins of a championship game from last season …. Between 95 and 90% of the tackles I observed would be illegal under the new rules… one interesting observation was watching Trinity full back Gary Spencer … every drive he skips and ducks under the armpit of the attempting tackler… putting his head in a very dangerous position..,

Interestingly during the first ten mins of the championship game… the teams went set for set… aggressive running and tackling but not one…(I watched it twice to confirm) of the tackles in that period would have been legal.

I think we are in grave danger of ‘throwing the baby out with the bath water’!

I can see future defensive patterns being akin to rugby sevens where no one wants to commit to the tackle, for fear of offending or off loading

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sat Dec 09, 2023 1:04 am  

Spookisback wrote:

Watched a couple of games from the 80s this morning and 20 mins of a championship game from last season …. Between 95 and 90% of the tackles I observed would be illegal under the new rules… one interesting observation was watching Trinity full back Gary Spencer … every drive he skips and ducks under the armpit of the attempting tackler… putting his head in a very dangerous position..,

Interestingly during the first ten mins of the championship game… the teams went set for set… aggressive running and tackling but not one…(I watched it twice to confirm) of the tackles in that period would have been legal.

I think we are in grave danger of ‘throwing the baby out with the bath water’!

I can see future defensive patterns being akin to rugby sevens where no one wants to commit to the tackle, for fear of offending or off loading

And I can see the offside line being reduced to 5 to compensate in some way and reduce the impacts.

The game will be a poor spectacle from 2025 I expect full of penalty kicks, penalties and tries. Defence will be none existent and territory will be teams camped in oppositions 20 forcing repeat sets.

Players like Mikey Lewis, Tomkins style players etc who like to duck and dive will get so many penalties for their teams it will be unfathomable.

One more thing…. International game. If the NRL are not doing this where does that leave international fixtures? If players in uk aren’t insured then surely they can’t play full contact under a different set of rules? The NRL would enjoy a huge gap i would think as how the NRL and Superleague would be coached for tackling would become quite different.

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sat Dec 09, 2023 1:07 am  

It doesn't really matter if the supporters like it or not. Fact there seems to be only one company willing to insure the players and no doubt they will have stipulated that a condition of the insurance would be a drive to reduce high shots. Head knocks from poor tackle technique or friendly fire is not foul play but accidental. Perhaps there is an acceptance this can't be mitigated from the game. Ultimately if no one is prepared to insure the game then it will not exist.

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sat Dec 09, 2023 9:40 am  

I’ve a number of thoughts on this but will try to keep it short and to the point.

Firstly we can thank the former players many of whom polluted their bodies with drink and recreational drugs and didn’t look after their money for this bandwagon jumping exercise to get a quick quid. They are responsible for this action.

I even saw one of the most high profile players involved in the legal action calling the new rules “ridiculous” which blows my mind given he is one of the main guys suing the RFL.

Wasn’t interested till he got a divorce and ran out of cash, then suddenly was all for it.

As others have highlighted the game would cease to exist given the litigation and the potential insurance situation so thanks to this group of individuals it has been forced to change.

The reality is we are reducing tackle height by a couple of inches. It’s not such a big deal. Will there be increased penalties initially, obviously, however just like what happened in Union when much more aggressive measures were put in place the number of penalties will ease over a short time when players get used to them.

You cannot just let kids play under the normal rules anymore and say their parents know the score, its rugby etc, again times have changed and this would cause huge potential issues down the line.

I’ve no doubt some players in the amateur game will have a knee jerk reaction and walk away….i will also bet nearly all of them return once the season gets underway and things calm down.

It’s the refs I feel sorry for as it’s going to be a hell of an undertaking to get on top of initially in already challenging environments in some cases.

I’m not for it in any way shape or form, my main issue is we are protection the ball carrier however I believe we are shifting risk on the defenders rather than reducing or mitigating it, but that seems to be ok, even the example the RFL issued of a now legal tackle from a Salford v Leigh game shows the 2 tackling players clash heads as there is a reduced target where players can put themselves.

End of day though, like it or not (abd im firmly in the not campaign) we are future proofing the game to give it the best chance of being a sport in 10/20 years time.

Re: Death of rugby league part 2 : Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:00 pm  

The advent of hitting higher and locking up a players upper torso with maybe 2 other defenders coming in to control and take down the attacking player mainly became prominent when we went to the 10 metre retreat
The extra 5 metres allowed teams to make more yardage by just taking a drive. That then fostered bigger, fitter players with good leg speed to maximise that yardage. The philosophy was that you can make enough yardage, even without getting a roll on and a fast play the ball, to reach midfield and put in a kick without taking a risk.

Maybe we should be looking at reducing the 10 metre retreat and reversing the trend.