Re: Stadium and other issues : Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:44 am  

[quote="Egg Banjo"]

Where are you getting the "10 times better than what was proposed" and when was this statement made ?

Remembering that we have had "a brand new 12000 capacity stadium at Newmarket" and "rock all" as the two parameters, where are you wanting the line to be drawn.
Of course what we are getting is not at the top of the scale but, it's massively better than the bottom of the scale and the new stand, even with cutbacks is superb and way, way better than we've had at BV in my lifetime.
Yes, its a crying shame that NM never happened etc, etc but, that's life.
Maybe, if Tring can survive (or regain a spot in SL and the football club progresses, there will be another opportunity down the line ?

Re: Stadium and other issues : Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:55 am  

[quote="wrencat1873"]
It came from PT following the 'shareholder' meeting - I don't know if that's the official club line

What we have is good, but it is now lacking in the community aspects of the redevelopment which was a big part of what was promised, and what is really important to the local area which is sadly lacking in opportunity. Having a community hub and gym would make a huge difference as there aren't really any close by, but the club don't seem interested in delivering on that, and we should all be holding them to account so that the local community and not just the club does actually benefit as promised.

As to where I draw the line, I draw it on the side which delivers for the local community as well as the club - and without the full community hub, learning zones, retail space, cafes, and community gym, the club are on the wrong side of that line

[PopTart]

Re: Stadium and other issues : Tue Aug 29, 2023 11:10 am  

I think I'm starting to understand your issue Egg. We are talking about different things.

The 12k stadium and Newmarket discussed many years ago. It is now absolutely dead in the water. There were many people involved in that over the years if you are looking to blame someone.

What this group have done, JM in particular, is take a dead in the water proposal and make a beneficial return out of it.

Personally I prefer something built on the Belle Vue footprint rather than Newmarket.
The stand looks fit for purpose to me. Way better than a soulless construction next to a warehouse. It fits our attendances better as we were only going to spend millions on empty seats there.
It's within budget.

Yes there is more that can be done to the West and back of North but we are in a position of being able to do that in future rather than bankrupting everyone trying to make it all look pretty rather than build what is needed.

The 10 times better comment was about the Rollin Shack development. That I think is sounding very promising but is still in planning stage so will have to wait for firm details.

Re: Stadium and other issues : Tue Aug 29, 2023 2:31 pm  

[quote="Egg Banjo"]
Quite so, how dare we complain that the club are failing to deliver on the full range of community facilities that they had said they would deliver

We've gone from the promise of a full brand new community stadium, to a full redeveloped community stadium, to a slightly redeveloped community stadium, to a new stand and almost no community facilities.

How dare the community try to hold the club to their promise to deliver for the community...
[quote="Egg Banjo"]

The club hasn't failed to deliver - it has delivered on what was essentially the main part - A New East Stand.
If you're so keen to point the finger, try the developers that have turned as over as well as WMDC and Box.

Re: Stadium and other issues : Tue Aug 29, 2023 3:27 pm  

PopTart wrote:

I think I'm starting to understand your issue Egg. We are talking about different things.

The 12k stadium and Newmarket discussed many years ago. It is now absolutely dead in the water. There were many people involved in that over the years if you are looking to blame someone.

What this group have done, JM in particular, is take a dead in the water proposal and make a beneficial return out of it.

Personally I prefer something built on the Belle Vue footprint rather than Newmarket.
The stand looks fit for purpose to me. Way better than a soulless construction next to a warehouse. It fits our attendances better as we were only going to spend millions on empty seats there.
It's within budget.

Yes there is more that can be done to the West and back of North but we are in a position of being able to do that in future rather than bankrupting everyone trying to make it all look pretty rather than build what is needed.

The 10 times better comment was about the Rollin Shack development. That I think is sounding very promising but is still in planning stage so will have to wait for firm details.

As a fan im quite happy with the new stand, i think it looks good and I prefer the location, but there has been a constant watering down at all levels over the past decade of what the community would actually get. Yes, the blame for not getting a full community stadium does not lie at the feet of the current owners, but the redevelopment of the rollin shack and the inclusion of community provision does within the redevelopment of Belle Vue.

I don't think it's unreasonable to be upset that we are not getting the full community provision we were promised as part of this redevelopment (which arevery much less than the original promise) after the club so publicly derided those others for not delivering on their previous promises to the wider community. And yes, should the sale of the club go through and the new owner also fails to deliver for the wider community, I'll be just as annoyed at him as I am the current owners, and all of those who have failed previously to deliver actual positive change for the people of Wakefield

Re: Stadium and other issues : Tue Aug 29, 2023 4:16 pm  

Pop Tart, can you do me a favour and check my posts are visible and not using invisible ink, I replied on more than once to the usual negative posters, but they either can’t see my posts, or they choose to ignore them. Thanks

[PopTart]

Re: Stadium and other issues : Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:47 pm  

Egg Banjo wrote:

As a fan im quite happy with the new stand, i think it looks good and I prefer the location, but there has been a constant watering down at all levels over the past decade of what the community would actually get. Yes, the blame for not getting a full community stadium does not lie at the feet of the current owners, but the redevelopment of the rollin shack and the inclusion of community provision does within the redevelopment of Belle Vue.

I don't think it's unreasonable to be upset that we are not getting the full community provision we were promised as part of this redevelopment (which arevery much less than the original promise) after the club so publicly derided those others for not delivering on their previous promises to the wider community. And yes, should the sale of the club go through and the new owner also fails to deliver for the wider community, I'll be just as annoyed at him as I am the current owners, and all of those who have failed previously to deliver actual positive change for the people of Wakefield

So on the overall delivery over 10 years, I agree with you.
But I personally I've let that go. There's no value in casing that. The people responsible got away with it.
But JM has managed to get a big percentage of that back, and he deserves a lot of credit for that.

[PopTart]

Re: Stadium and other issues : Tue Aug 29, 2023 9:49 pm  

Dunkirk Spirit wrote:

Pop Tart, can you do me a favour and check my posts are visible and not using invisible ink, I replied on more than once to the usual negative posters, but they either can’t see my posts, or they choose to ignore them. Thanks

Lol. Alas whatever it is seems to happen to my posts too.

Re: Stadium and other issues : Wed Aug 30, 2023 7:14 am  

PopTart wrote:

So on the overall delivery over 10 years, I agree with you.
But I personally I've let that go. There's no value in casing that. The people responsible got away with it.
But JM has managed to get a big percentage of that back, and he deserves a lot of credit for that.

They'll get the credit when it is actually delivered for the community, not before. As I see it, the club are currently not offering any more to the wider local community than they did a decade ago, which pretty much amounts to a rentable function room. Yes, they've done great work to get a redeveloped stand, but that only really benefits the few thousand fans of the club, and not the hundreds of thousands of residents of Wakefield which is what the club said this redevelopment would do.

As a fan, I'm happy - we've got a nice looking (but smaller than planned) stand
As a resident, I'm pee'd off that yet again we have had a bare minimum promised and they've failed to even deliver that

Re: Stadium and other issues : Wed Aug 30, 2023 9:27 am  

I’m pleased Newmarket fell through because, for Trinity fans it was a bad location.
I’m also gutted that we haven’t got a full redevelopment of BV, but I’m extremely happy with the new stand.
That, I would think, is by far the biggest cost of the whole project.
I also want to see the disgusting west terrace developed to the same standard and I have a hunch it will be.
Oh, we also have new floodlights and pitch - not to be overlooked.
I also know that if material prices hadn’t rocketed in the last couple of year we would have had more.
That’s life - we have to live with it.
I have gratitude for what JM has done and it’s a major start.
I’m glass half full and realise there are more important matters going on, on the pitch than to constantly Moan about the ground.