Re: Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:21 pm  

Cripesginger wrote:

I think posters like you and TRB bring well informed expertise to this topic.

However I do not think Mr Carter et al had a gun to their head when they took over the club. If they did not like the contract with BoI then they did not have take over the club. To accept the contract and then have people whinging about the terms being unfair is infantile. If the rent is too high so be it, try and negotiate it down, but don't whine about unfairness.

BoI are a multi billion euro organisation. Drive around Dublin and other parts of Ireland and you can see multi million euro projects that have been abandoned. several will be BoI financed projects. A few thousand pounds in Wakefield being spent on an empty stadium will not perturb the BoI. Also Richie Boucher the CEO is a tough smart sob who has set the tone for the recovery of the bank. If Mr Carter has plans B,C etc it is safe to assume BoI will also have a variety of plans.

If BoI 'roll over' on a small deal like your stadium it may send the wrong sort of message to people owing far larger amounts of money. They may also conclude that the rents received so far could cover the costs of an empty stadium for a few years.

The 'brinkmanship' is fascinating. Yet it is a dreadful notion that a few senior BoI executives - with no commitment to the area - could meet one afternoon and decide to have an empty stadium and 120 years of tradition comes to a stop.

Thank you... I think! However, lets address your points.

They did not have a gun to their heads but equally the lease was one small part of the club as an overall entity and business, and thank god they did take it on... or it would already be dead! They did not sign or agree the lease and the question is do you not take on the club and let it die because it was so burdensome making it not worth taking any shot as saving the club? Well, given they have been paying it since they took over then the answer is clearly no, but that still does not mean it was ever fair and reasonable!

I don't think they have whinged about it being too high, they have said it is too high because it clearly is (that is not hard to see) and indeed they have tried to negotiate a reduced fair new rent. They have made two very fair and reasonable offers to the BOI and O'Hara (trust me, they are reasonable, they are not trying to take the proverbial) and assume they had hoped for negotiations to continue, but as of this morning, they had not heard from either O'Hara or the BOI about the offers. So, I think is feeling that the club has brought on a game of brinkmanship with the BOI is not strictly true, I think it is the BOI that have done that and not the other way around.

Today was the day you either keep paying the lease into next year or give notice to quit, there were only two choices and one of them had to be taken! I don't think anyone on this thread and any others on FB etc has posted what I consider to be a good enough reason to keep paying what is a very large lease cost for a poor facility for the money being paid!

I also think that your opinion of the BOI, who are still up the creek with no paddle, is over-simplistic! I know someone who is a very good friend of the BOI CEO and he is indeed a very smart man but like my friend, he is a banker, and if this ever got as far as his door I am sure he would want to know why asset on the BOI books, albeit one that is showing as a negative asset, that was generating a very good income in the circumstances is now suddenly costing the bank £5k a month it doesn't need to spend and adding to that negative asset value on the books? He will not give two figs about what it has made him to date, he will want to know why it is now costing him money when it didn't have to! I think the BOI plan is simple, don't spend money when you don't have to... they can play the long game and while ever some money is coming in and they still own a negative asset, that negative value continues to head towards the positive, you don't want it going back the other way!

I think the BOI executives will only want to know, is this the best deal we could do under the circumstances, did we draw out a potential bluff? The answer, unless you know different, it going to be yes, we did and we are still getting an income and if of course a better offer comes along in the meantime, we will reconsider our options.

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:14 am  

Inflatable_Armadillo wrote:

They have not been forced as such Snowie, but they have made a business decision, that had to be made, if they were to remain in a longer term financially viable position both is SL or the Championship. Michael and Chris were having to service a lease they did not agree (as it was signed under previous ownership) and that lease is clearly way above a fair commercial value and and that is a problem irrespective. When you also couple that with the reality of not been 100% certain of staying in Super League then that becomes an even bigger business issue.

The BOI and O'Hara are just trying to get as much money for their business and shareholders as they can and of course they are being paid what someone agreed to pay them. The new owners don't want to continue to pay that, because it is not fair and sustainable and have made them both what I would agree is a fair offer. They have not responded and today was the day that the club had to give notice if it was not to get committed into continuing to have to pay an overinflated rent.

The BOI are not trying to force anyone out, they are just playing the game! I think they will come back to the table now, because the club are serious, but if you were the bank a fair rent has to be better than losing say £5k a month on rates and 24 hour security!

being force to make a business decision I meant, means a hole lot to me to stay but I too have to been looking into a plan b but this has happen fear quicker than expected

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:13 am  

Inflatable_Armadillo wrote:

As an aside and not wishing to cause thread drift or derail this one, I know how people feel and it is unnerving, and even scary, that the club finds itself at this cross-roads through no fault of its own, but it is and decisions have to be made, however hard they might be

Some culpability does lay with the club, albeit not the current incumbents. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but had Ted Richardson not been so quick to sell the ground to himself without an cast iron alternative to move to the club may have still owned the ground and have an asset of which to borrow from to aid redevelopment. I'm not sure whether it would've been lost as part of the administration process but the point remains this situation was sowed nearly 10 years ago.

As an aside, did we ever find out what happened to the missing half (c. £1.2m) of the total selling price of BV?

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:00 am  

Khlav Kalash wrote:

Some culpability does lay with the club, albeit not the current incumbents. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but had Ted Richardson not been so quick to sell the ground to himself without an cast iron alternative to move to the club may have still owned the ground and have an asset of which to borrow from to aid redevelopment. I'm not sure whether it would've been lost as part of the administration process but the point remains this situation was sowed nearly 10 years ago.

As an aside, did we ever find out what happened to the missing half (c. £1.2m) of the total selling price of BV?

Fair points but by the 'club' I did indeed mean the current incumbents as you surmised. My hindsight is bloody marvellous but I don't think Ted had many options at the time and had he not done something, it would have died.

As I understand it the £1.2m (or variations of that figure) never really existed and while Ted gave the club circa a £1m from the deal he ultimately got nothing because he owed the BOI and defaulted on the mortgage. It is the BOI who lost out and are owed money, the only party that benefited from any real cash were the club. Trust me, Ted did not pocket any of the BOI cash, the club did, but he didn't.

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:04 am  

snowie wrote:

being force to make a business decision I meant, means a hole lot to me to stay but I too have to been looking into a plan b but this has happen fear quicker than expected

I really don't think it will happen mate, but as you know, as a business you have to plan and take tough decisions. The club really only had one option, despite what anyone may post, and they rightly took it in the best interests of the club and fans. I would not start panicking just yet!

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:12 am  

Inflatable_Armadillo wrote: As an aside and not wishing to cause thread drift or derail this one, I know how people feel and it is unnerving, and even scary, that the club finds itself at this cross-roads through no fault of its own, but it is and decisions have to be made, however hard they might be but... nipping over here and looking at this bunch of (mostly) clueless numpties get all over excited about the merest glimmer and tiniest possibility of the demise of another fellow RL club, makes all the hard work so worth while! http://www.casforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27261 Night everyone! Again, to break away from the doom and gloom, I am taking bets on how many more posts are made before someone posts on here, however apocryphal and untrue it actually is, about the ground been sold back to the club for a £1? I think it will be less than 3!

Inflatable_Armadillo wrote: As an aside and not wishing to cause thread drift or derail this one, I know how people feel and it is unnerving, and even scary, that the club finds itself at this cross-roads through no fault of its own, but it is and decisions have to be made, however hard they might be but... nipping over here and looking at this bunch of (mostly) clueless numpties get all over excited about the merest glimmer and tiniest possibility of the demise of another fellow RL club, makes all the hard work so worth while! http://www.casforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27261 Night everyone! Again, to break away from the doom and gloom, I am taking bets on how many more posts are made before someone posts on here, however apocryphal and untrue it actually is, about the ground been sold back to the club for a £1? I think it will be less than 3!

Re: Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:37 am  

Theboyem wrote:

Depends how confident i was of staying up and how confident i was of Newmarket happening.
Moving away = dead.
Staying at BV in championship = dead.
Staying at BV in Superleague = a pulse.
Personally i roll the dice for SL survival and stay as the BV housing planning renewal will have gone through during that time and as we were still there the condition would likely remain in place. And one way or the other we will probably know whether Newmarket will ever happen. But then i ain't an accountant.

Easy to say when your playing with someone else's cash though.

Who knows, if all works out, we could be playing SL rugby at Belle Vue and paying less to do so, this in turn giving us more money to put into the squad.

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:58 am  

Inflatable_Armadillo wrote:

Again, to break away from the doom and gloom, I am taking bets on how many more posts are made before someone posts on here, however apocryphal and untrue it actually is, about the ground been sold back to the club for a £1?

I think it will be less than 3!

That thread has only one, possibly two, posts that seem to take any enjoyment from the situation the rest are either asking similar questions to those from wakey fans on here or sympathetic. Why are you trying to stir the pot? I thought you were better than lowering yourself to the level of the some of the buffoons both clubs have to be honest.

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:53 am  

Michael Carter was talking of whats needed this year and next and I dont believe he would make such forward thinking comments glibly. I think this could be an informed decision made by a very astute business man with the aim of getting more financial stability for next year

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:19 pm  

Do BoI own the hospitality suite and all other ground fixtures and fittings? Or just the land?