Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:02 am  

The Avenger wrote:

When you look around the country at the number new stadiums, sports facilities, running tracks, 3Gs and various other leisure facilities it's embarrassing to then see the Wakefield District in comparison.

There are much smaller Cities than Wakefield not to mention Towns, even Villages and communities that have managed to provide state of the art facilities for the use of their professional and amateur sports clubs.

While our Council and its leader are allowed to hide behind the '3 Clubs in our area' excuse and wash their hands of any responsibility for the issue we will never improve our situation. It is quite simply pathetic on their part that nothing has been done in the WMDC for decades!

Other Councils have had the foresight to steer potential developer like Tesco, Asda for example, in the direction of a sports club and have insisted that any development includes a stadium etc. Wakefield on the other hand have missed that boat on a number of occasions and when the opportunity rose again they botched the agreement and allowed the Developers legal team to run rings around them. Now our inglorious Council leader has washed his hands of the affair rather than bringing pressure on the developer to do the right thing, the conspiricy theorist in me wants to ask why?

I'll make this prediction, unless we are the beneficiaries of some philanthropist we will not achieve any significant progress with regards to a stadium. The results of which will be the loss of our SL status, a slow decline into Championship mediocrity and eventually past the point of no return a la Oldham, maybe even a Wakefield RU type cease of existence.

Very dark and depressing I know but I just don't see where the intervention is going to come from short of philanthropy.

Box and his co Councilors can point in as many directions as they like, they can blame the recession, claim we are a private company, use the 3 club excuse, say they've helped when really they've done little to nothing whatever!
It doesn't change the fact that they've allowed Wakefield to become a joke in comparison to the many other Cities and Towns around the country.

Excellent post.

Agree with what has been said but we have not given up on Newmarket and will not do so.

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:31 am  

It’s obvious the local authority care nothing about sporting facilities in the city of WAKEFIELD , Wakefield F C gone Wakefield RU gone , All that will be left are sporting facilities on the peripheral of WAKEFIELD

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:18 am  

Don't the council understand that towns are known around the country and around the world be their sporting teams. Who in Australia would have heard of Wigan if it wasn't for Wigan RLFC. I bet most people in London wouldn't even know of Wigan. If the council wants investment in Wakefield from around the UK and Europe surely having a successful team playing in a quality stadium will help advertise the town. It's short sighted and parochial not to want to do what they can to bring about first class sporting facilities and a first class team.

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:26 am  

ball-in-hand wrote:

Don't the council understand that towns are known around the country and around the world be their sporting teams. Who in Australia would have heard of Wigan if it wasn't for Wigan RLFC. I bet most people in London wouldn't even know of Wigan. If the council wants investment in Wakefield from around the UK and Europe surely having a successful team playing in a quality stadium will help advertise the town. It's short sighted and parochial not to want to do what they can to bring about first class sporting facilities and a first class team.

They did not want a market,so why want a sporting facility?

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:37 am  

The Avenger wrote:

When you look around the country at the number new stadiums, sports facilities, running tracks, 3Gs and various other leisure facilities it's embarrassing to then see the Wakefield District in comparison.

There are much smaller Cities than Wakefield not to mention Towns, even Villages and communities that have managed to provide state of the art facilities for the use of their professional and amateur sports clubs.

While our Council and its leader are allowed to hide behind the '3 Clubs in our area' excuse and wash their hands of any responsibility for the issue we will never improve our situation. It is quite simply pathetic on their part that nothing has been done in the WMDC for decades!

Other Councils have had the foresight to steer potential developer like Tesco, Asda for example, in the direction of a sports club and have insisted that any development includes a stadium etc. Wakefield on the other hand have missed that boat on a number of occasions and when the opportunity rose again they botched the agreement and allowed the Developers legal team to run rings around them. Now our inglorious Council leader has washed his hands of the affair rather than bringing pressure on the developer to do the right thing, the conspiricy theorist in me wants to ask why?

I'll make this prediction, unless we are the beneficiaries of some philanthropist we will not achieve any significant progress with regards to a stadium. The results of which will be the loss of our SL status, a slow decline into Championship mediocrity and eventually past the point of no return a la Oldham, maybe even a Wakefield RU type cease of existence.

Very dark and depressing I know but I just don't see where the intervention is going to come from short of philanthropy.

Box and his co Councilors can point in as many directions as they like, they can blame the recession, claim we are a private company, use the 3 club excuse, say they've helped when really they've done little to nothing whatever!
It doesn't change the fact that they've allowed Wakefield to become a joke in comparison to the many other Cities and Towns around the country.

Very good post and sadly I agree with your prediction, it pains me to see what has happened in my place of birth and home town of many years. But i've said it before and i'll say it again, in my professional opinion Newmarket is dead in the water and it won't happen no matter how much you want it to. All it is now is a bargaining chip to try and get the funds for a full Belle Vue revamp and I actually think by clinging onto the NM build you are actually lessening the chance of that happening. It makes the argument seem inconsistent and unsure. It screams of 'give us something, anything' and this plays right into the hands of the people trying to wriggle out of their obligations by playing for time and playing on that apparent confusion. The time has come to go full steam ahead on pushing the BV deal through as the longer it drags then the less chance it will ever happen. The superbowl and gym will not be available for ever, the longer you are caught between two stools then the more the likelihood that someone will nip in and snatch them for under the clubs/trusts nose. YCP will happily sit on the land at NM for as long at it takes to become available, building around the site up to the trigger point and sneaking in other 'Newcold' style developments. They know it is worth more to them and more to the council in future revenue as business use rather than a stadium so will be in it for the long haul.

As for Mr Box I have encounted him on more than one occasion and no I don't like the guy as a person, in fact not many people I know do. But he is not there to be liked he is there to provide for the entire WMDC area and like it or not he has plenty of support throughout the district. Yes this includes sporting facilities for the city itself but in recent times the focus on this has dropped way down the political scale whilst other matters have risen up to take priority. Principally this involves building housing as there is a MASSIVE shortfall in this area, especially affordable housing. Now YCP are big players in this market and have various plots around the district, some already will planning permission, earmarked for housing. They also have to have their own funds available to be able to deliver this and I should imagine building a swanky new stadium may just seriously affect that. The council HAVE to provide extra housing, it is a non-negotiable governmemt directive, if they don't they get their central government funding cut and everyone in the district then suffers further. Obviously this then makes the council and its leader a target to be shot out and i'm pretty sure he wants to avoid that scenario. So if anyone thinks he will be going head to head with Yorkcourt over this then and shaking the tree until it breaks then they are deluding themselves, it's not going to happen. It's just not in his or his parties best interests and he could quite justifiably argue not in the wider districts either. Supporting the build could be more politically damaging to him than remaining silent on the matter and any politician would likely do the same. I doubt his position on it will change anytime soon.

I still think the best that will come from this is a couple of million quid take it or leave it deal to buy back Belle Vue from the bank and a few quid for a lick of paint, anything more than that will be a bonus. Yes the public has been shafted but the main protagonists know that they hold all the cards regarding time here and will play for that as the club can't grow as it is now and evetually will drop, lessening the requirement still further. Rather than a community facility NM has always been seen to most as a new stadium for Wakefield Trinity, a club with around four thousand regularly attending fans. You might not want to admit it but to the outsider looking in it is an insignificant development and one that a very small percentage of the area give a damn about. Plenty has changed since the heady days of the petition and people have bigger fish to fry regarding what they think should be going with their money in their communities and a sports ground up by the motorway on the border with Leeds isn't going to garner as much backing as it once would have. It's only my professional opinion from what is now afar but target the BV revamp and something may still come out of this but keeping the push for NM will detract attention and will likely ensure we end up with nothing. Speed is of the essence now as given yesterdays figures that government borrowing has risen heavily again I expect more announcements of cuts in the chancellors upcoming autumn statement which will effect local government. There will be though a further push to get Britain building as it is fast reaching crisis point, this obviously also has a bearing on BV given it has planning permission for housing and the bank wants to sell. It is time to think through the tactics and start singing the same hymn from the same sheet.

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:42 am  

ball-in-hand wrote:

Don't the council understand that towns are known around the country and around the world be their sporting teams. Who in Australia would have heard of Wigan if it wasn't for Wigan RLFC. I bet most people in London wouldn't even know of Wigan. If the council wants investment in Wakefield from around the UK and Europe surely having a successful team playing in a quality stadium will help advertise the town. It's short sighted and parochial not to want to do what they can to bring about first class sporting facilities and a first class team.

There are a number of compelling reasons why the council should not just want but passionately desire a successful sporting team playing in a state of the art facility, you've hit on one of them.

Another major one which isn't up for debate anymore as its proven by research, statistics and expert anecdotal evidence is the huge positive effect that sporting aspiration has on the long term health of a populace.

People, the young in particular, are inspired and motivated to emulate their idols and in particular idols with whom they can identify. They are more likely to become Physicaly and mentally active in the pursuit of their desire to emulate, that in turn generates a more active 'lifestyle trait' which is carried forward throughout their lives thus alleviating the budgets of the National Health etc NOT SPECULATION, PROVEN!

it is also proven that schoolchildren who are Physicaly, mentaly and socially involved in an active lifestyle through sport are more likely to succeed academically. NOT SPECULATION, PROVEN!

Children in this area are inspired by sporting heroes to get actively involved in sport but the numbers are drifting downward and will hit rock bottom if we lose the only professional sports club from the City of Wakefield. With these two things in mind it is criminally negligent of the Council and its leader to nonchalantly shrug his shoulders and wash his hands of HIS responsibility to Wakefield.

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:28 pm  

The Avenger wrote:

People, the young in particular, are inspired and motivated to emulate their idols and in particular idols with whom they can identify. They are more likely to become Physicaly and mentally active in the pursuit of their desire to emulate, that in turn generates a more active 'lifestyle trait' which is carried forward throughout their lives thus alleviating the budgets of the National Health etc NOT SPECULATION, PROVEN!

it is also proven that schoolchildren who are Physicaly, mentaly and socially involved in an active lifestyle through sport are more likely to succeed academically. NOT SPECULATION, PROVEN!

Children in this area are inspired by sporting heroes to get actively involved in sport but the numbers are drifting downward and will hit rock bottom if we lose the only professional sports club from the City of Wakefield. With these two things in mind it is criminally negligent of the Council and its leader to nonchalantly shrug his shoulders and wash his hands of HIS responsibility to Wakefield.

Children in the area ARE actively involved in sport though - they certainly are in Castleford. Facilities are superb at Cas High School were several teams compete every year in the Wembley finals and Airedale High don't to too bad either.
Will the addition of a couple of all-weather pitches off the M62 for football have that much effect on sporting excellence in the WF area? I don't think so.

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:15 pm  

sixtogo wrote:

Very good post and sadly I agree with your prediction, it pains me to see what has happened in my place of birth and home town of many years. But i've said it before and i'll say it again, in my professional opinion Newmarket is dead in the water and it won't happen no matter how much you want it to. All it is now is a bargaining chip to try and get the funds for a full Belle Vue revamp and I actually think by clinging onto the NM build you are actually lessening the chance of that happening. It makes the argument seem inconsistent and unsure. It screams of 'give us something, anything' and this plays right into the hands of the people trying to wriggle out of their obligations by playing for time and playing on that apparent confusion. The time has come to go full steam ahead on pushing the BV deal through as the longer it drags then the less chance it will ever happen. The superbowl and gym will not be available for ever, the longer you are caught between two stools then the more the likelihood that someone will nip in and snatch them for under the clubs/trusts nose. YCP will happily sit on the land at NM for as long at it takes to become available, building around the site up to the trigger point and sneaking in other 'Newcold' style developments. They know it is worth more to them and more to the council in future revenue as business use rather than a stadium so will be in it for the long haul.

As for Mr Box I have encounted him on more than one occasion and no I don't like the guy as a person, in fact not many people I know do. But he is not there to be liked he is there to provide for the entire WMDC area and like it or not he has plenty of support throughout the district. Yes this includes sporting facilities for the city itself but in recent times the focus on this has dropped way down the political scale whilst other matters have risen up to take priority. Principally this involves building housing as there is a MASSIVE shortfall in this area, especially affordable housing. Now YCP are big players in this market and have various plots around the district, some already will planning permission, earmarked for housing. They also have to have their own funds available to be able to deliver this and I should imagine building a swanky new stadium may just seriously affect that. The council HAVE to provide extra housing, it is a non-negotiable governmemt directive, if they don't they get their central government funding cut and everyone in the district then suffers further. Obviously this then makes the council and its leader a target to be shot out and i'm pretty sure he wants to avoid that scenario. So if anyone thinks he will be going head to head with Yorkcourt over this then and shaking the tree until it breaks then they are deluding themselves, it's not going to happen. It's just not in his or his parties best interests and he could quite justifiably argue not in the wider districts either. Supporting the build could be more politically damaging to him than remaining silent on the matter and any politician would likely do the same. I doubt his position on it will change anytime soon.

I still think the best that will come from this is a couple of million quid take it or leave it deal to buy back Belle Vue from the bank and a few quid for a lick of paint, anything more than that will be a bonus. Yes the public has been shafted but the main protagonists know that they hold all the cards regarding time here and will play for that as the club can't grow as it is now and evetually will drop, lessening the requirement still further. Rather than a community facility NM has always been seen to most as a new stadium for Wakefield Trinity, a club with around four thousand regularly attending fans. You might not want to admit it but to the outsider looking in it is an insignificant development and one that a very small percentage of the area give a damn about. Plenty has changed since the heady days of the petition and people have bigger fish to fry regarding what they think should be going with their money in their communities and a sports ground up by the motorway on the border with Leeds isn't going to garner as much backing as it once would have. It's only my professional opinion from what is now afar but target the BV revamp and something may still come out of this but keeping the push for NM will detract attention and will likely ensure we end up with nothing. Speed is of the essence now as given yesterdays figures that government borrowing has risen heavily again I expect more announcements of cuts in the chancellors upcoming autumn statement which will effect local government. There will be though a further push to get Britain building as it is fast reaching crisis point, this obviously also has a bearing on BV given it has planning permission for housing and the bank wants to sell. It is time to think through the tactics and start singing the same hymn from the same sheet.

True and we need to make a move ASAP

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:19 pm  

Tigerade wrote:

Children in the area ARE actively involved in sport though - they certainly are in Castleford. Facilities are superb at Cas High School were several teams compete every year in the Wembley finals and Airedale High don't to too bad either.
Will the addition of a couple of all-weather pitches off the M62 for football have that much effect on sporting excellence in the WF area? I don't think so.

Yes it is fair to say that sporting facilities in schools and colleges in the area have improved massively in the last few years to a point where many have their own top quality facilities and/or links to professional gyms and health clubs giving students access to a wider amount of kit than ever before. The change to academies has also aided this investment. I would say that it would be the community clubs that would benefit the most from a new development but they don't require a massive stadium to be built, just the basic facilities. I would have thought that would make it cheaper for them to use and a more viable option than the costs a large multi-purpose stadium build would incur.

Re: The City of Wakefield Community Stadium : Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:56 pm  

Theboyem wrote:

Yes it is fair to say that sporting facilities in schools and colleges in the area have improved massively in the last few years...

FYI, the sports facilities at Wakefield College have all just been closed.

They now hire Lightwaves and have no outdoor fields to compare with what they had at Thornes Park.