Re: The Problem With Newmarket : Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:56 am  

TRB wrote:

You have missed the main issue here, namely that there is no stadium without the industrial development / offices / hotel etc. It is the gain from the development of these items which is funding both the land and, at least partly, the build cost of the stadium.

As mentioned above, I think Yorkcourt have been very sympathetic with the plans. The 'light' use units (pub / hotel / offices) are the ones based around the housing, with the 'heavy' units further away - resulting in lighter traffic movements around the existing housing. There is also attention to detail regarding the roadways and landscaping already. If you don't like something, tell the council - but I would suggest that you look at the details more closely and deal with them.

I never doubted for one minute that there would be complaints, but I have seen nothing yet to suggest that the wider population of Wakefield is not best served in this development occuring.

Sorry for not replying to some of your messages sooner I think I should have picked a better day to post my message when I would have had more time, anyway in reply to your post I realise that the ground can not go ahead without the industrial side and it is all well and good to say as another person has said that this used to be a pit site and so really is brown belt land but the fact is to my way of thinking that it is no longer brown belt and is fully fledged green in my eyes, and this really is in short supply in my eyes. Another concern of mine is that once this area has been industrialised it will be an absolute cert that the site will grow over the coming years with yet more warehouses and what have you, I really do not know what the answer is to all of this because as I have tried to make clear were it just new stadium facilities that were going on this land I would have no problem its just that I can see this whole site escalating because we are talking about a huge acreage of land here and ending up as one of the biggest industrial areas in the district and then all of our green belt or brown if you like will be lost and all that has gone with it, as I said in my first message I never expected my thoughts to be popular I just wanted them to be known and the reasons behind them.

Re: The Problem With Newmarket : Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:12 pm  

spudmonkey wrote:

I live very close to the site on Newmarket Lane and have no problem with the stadiium and warehousing/offices being built.

There will still be plenty of green land left for the wildlife as it is very rural around Newmarket Lane/Bottom Boat Road.

Just think of the jobs that these warehouses/offices/hotel is going to bring to the people of Stanley! How fantastic to live on the Moorhouse estate and walk to work every morning instead of having to drive to the other side of town !!!

The land is well overdue being developed and if it's not this development, it'll be another a few years down the line.

I think Yorkcourt have been very sympathetic in their plans and have taken into consideration the local residents who both live on Newmarket Lane already (bypassing the old Newmarket lane and making it restricted access) and the Moorhouse estate (by ensuring the stadium will be blocked from their view)

Anyway, they are my thoughts and I am not just behind the stadium because I am a Wakefield fan, I woul much rather stay at Belle Vue if the truth be known but I know that is not realistic.

Yep and if i lived in the area i would rather have a sympathetic build like the one on offer, who knows what may be offered in future.

Re: The Problem With Newmarket : Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:16 pm  

TURFEDOUT wrote:

Well,if the poster is not looking to achieve anything -- why bother posting a comment.

Surely he is looking for people to support/understand/empathise/sympathise with his viewpoint,with the aim of gaining support to oppose the development .

On top of that,the whole "speech" is littered with contradictions.

How on earth can you think a stadium in isolation would be good for the area -- but not the full development.Only the full development will bring investment and jobs.

He knows if we dont get this stadium --- it wont be the" be all and end all" for the Wildcats --- How does he know that?When most of us know the reality is we are shafted without a new ground and if this doesnt happen,we are out of time.

And as ive already stated,the heritage card!!!!

IMHO,the poster has come on here with an agenda and tried delivering it with a poorly constructed viewpoint,littered with poor and inaccurate comments.

However ,i will take heart that if the poster represents the objectors,they are up a creek without a crested newt

Not a dig at you St.Chunter and Happy New Year.

I promise you I have come on here with no agenda other than to put across my point on why I am opposed to the industrialisation of the Newmarket site, I do realise that I am going to get no support for what I believe is the greater good of our community from you folks on here as you are all wildcats fans and you all want this to happen, and I dare say that in the long run you will be proved to be right and this will all go ahead but if I and others just sat back and watched it happen without making our voices heard then we would not be being true to our beliefs, another point you make is that the wildcats would be shafted as you put it if this ground does not go ahead well to be honest I don’t know about that all I do know is that rugby has been played in Wakefield for over 100 years and I am sure this would continue to be the case as I am sure there are other suitable sites. As other people have mentioned about all the hundreds of jobs that would be created by all this, well from what I have seen of this sort of thing in the past you could have a warehouse as big as 3 rugby fields and only have 6 guys on forklifts working in it so I think that number of jobs could be very much exaggerated, but anyway these are just my thoughts and I do realise that I am in a very big minority so I think it will just be a case of wait and see what comes of it all.

Re: The Problem With Newmarket : Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:16 pm  

stanleyman wrote:

Sorry for not replying to some of your messages sooner I think I should have picked a better day to post my message when I would have had more time, anyway in reply to your post I realise that the ground can not go ahead without the industrial side and it is all well and good to say as another person has said that this used to be a pit site and so really is brown belt land but the fact is to my way of thinking that it is no longer brown belt and is fully fledged green in my eyes, and this really is in short supply in my eyes. Another concern of mine is that once this area has been industrialised it will be an absolute cert that the site will grow over the coming years with yet more warehouses and what have you, I really do not know what the answer is to all of this because as I have tried to make clear were it just new stadium facilities that were going on this land I would have no problem its just that I can see this whole site escalating because we are talking about a huge acreage of land here and ending up as one of the biggest industrial areas in the district and then all of our green belt or brown if you like will be lost and all that has gone with it, as I said in my first message I never expected my thoughts to be popular I just wanted them to be known and the reasons behind them.

My first post was a response to what appeared to be a "reasonable" opposition to the proposals from someone who had no benefit coming from the proposals.

Unfortunately, your second post clearly shows you to be a fully paid up member of the NIMBY brigade and thus not open to a proper debate on the subject.

Re: The Problem With Newmarket : Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:20 pm  

stanleyman wrote:

Sorry for not replying to some of your messages sooner I think I should have picked a better day to post my message when I would have had more time, anyway in reply to your post I realise that the ground can not go ahead without the industrial side and it is all well and good to say as another person has said that this used to be a pit site and so really is brown belt land but the fact is to my way of thinking that it is no longer brown belt and is fully fledged green in my eyes, and this really is in short supply in my eyes. Another concern of mine is that once this area has been industrialised it will be an absolute cert that the site will grow over the coming years with yet more warehouses and what have you, I really do not know what the answer is to all of this because as I have tried to make clear were it just new stadium facilities that were going on this land I would have no problem its just that I can see this whole site escalating because we are talking about a huge acreage of land here and ending up as one of the biggest industrial areas in the district and then all of our green belt or brown if you like will be lost and all that has gone with it, as I said in my first message I never expected my thoughts to be popular I just wanted them to be known and the reasons behind them.

Many sites which used to be pit sites have been landscaped and returend to nature sites. However this one in particular benefits from it's location adjacent to the motorway, and that, in my view, renders it liable to development as the traffic movements, once off the motorway, will be as small as can reasonably be accomodated.

In comparison to ALL the other motorway junctions, this one has escaped for a long time:
Junction 39 has been developed - partly on old quarry workings, but much of it on arable land (some belonging to my ancestors many moons ago - and no, we didn't sell it for development).
Junction 40 has seen a great deal of development over recent years - again there is history of mine workings in the area, but there is also arable farming which has been lost.
Junction 41 now has the junction 41 estate (some of this land was sold by uncle to allow development, unfortunately he sold it in the 70's because he couldn't make money out of rhubarb at the time) and it has Paragon.
Junction 31 on the M62 has Normantion ind est and the Freeport site.
Junction 32 has - well, everything!

So, why would it not be suitable to develop J30 as the next logical move, on land previously used for heavy, dirty, industry and which in turn offers the opportunity to provide Wakefield with much needed sporting facilities - both to encourage and develop activity in sport for achievers at all levels and to preserve our sporting heritage and prevent the removal of the the most significant 'Wakefield' branded organisation from the top level of it's sport.

It's a no-brainer for me - even allowing for some sympathy for those in the midst of it all.

Re: The Problem With Newmarket : Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:22 pm  

The problem that Wakefield has is a shortage of industrial/commercial land for the long term future which it needs in order to create the much needed jobs the district requires. I know that there are developments on junctions of the M1 and M62 but these are becomong developed and Junction 30 offers the district a long term opportunity for job creation which needs to be taken. I understand that Leeds are looking at the otherside of the mororway so I suspect the junction will be developed.

With regard to Green Belt, yes part of the site is Green Belt but it is not historic Green Belt or Ancient Woodland or anything of Conservational value. It was the former Newmarket Silkstone Colliery which has gone and the site holds no heritage value. It will have been designated Green Belt when the pit closed and at the time there was no requirement for more industrial/commercial land but times have moved on and we need developments that will create employment and waht better place than at the side of the M62.

This development is not just about a Stadium. Of course we want to see a Stadium that we can call home but Wakefield need this development for its long term future and that of its residents. I only hope the people of Wakefield can see this and it would be nice for the Editorial of the Wakefield Express to see the benefits to Wakefield and give its supports.

Re: The Problem With Newmarket : Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:22 pm  

stanleyman wrote:

I promise you I have come on here with no agenda other than to put across my point on why I am opposed to the industrialisation of the Newmarket site, I do realise that I am going to get no support for what I believe is the greater good of our community from you folks on here as you are all wildcats fans and you all want this to happen, and I dare say that in the long run you will be proved to be right and this will all go ahead but if I and others just sat back and watched it happen without making our voices heard then we would not be being true to our beliefs, another point you make is that the wildcats would be shafted as you put it if this ground does not go ahead well to be honest I don’t know about that all I do know is that rugby has been played in Wakefield for over 100 years and I am sure this would continue to be the case as I am sure there are other suitable sites. As other people have mentioned about all the hundreds of jobs that would be created by all this, well from what I have seen of this sort of thing in the past you could have a warehouse as big as 3 rugby fields and only have 6 guys on forklifts working in it so I think that number of jobs could be very much exaggerated, but anyway these are just my thoughts and I do realise that I am in a very big minority so I think it will just be a case of wait and see what comes of it all.

There may be other sites suitable for a stadium on its own, but given that the club has already sold Belle Vue and there is a need to have external funding to build a new ground the ONLY solution is for a larger development that includes a stadium rather than a stand alone project.

Whilst a large warehouse may have a relatively small people working in it, there are the other jobs created by the distribution (i.e. drivers) that you won't see within the building.

Rather than spending time posting your drivel on here, you should either get out & appreciate the manufactured green belt while it lasts or get searching for a new house in the middle of a national park.

Re: The Problem With Newmarket : Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:25 pm  

stanleyman wrote:

I promise you I have come on here with no agenda other than to put across my point on why I am opposed to the industrialisation of the Newmarket site, I do realise that I am going to get no support for what I believe is the greater good of our community from you folks on here as you are all wildcats fans and you all want this to happen, and I dare say that in the long run you will be proved to be right and this will all go ahead but if I and others just sat back and watched it happen without making our voices heard then we would not be being true to our beliefs, another point you make is that the wildcats would be shafted as you put it if this ground does not go ahead well to be honest I don’t know about that all I do know is that rugby has been played in Wakefield for over 100 years and I am sure this would continue to be the case as I am sure there are other suitable sites. As other people have mentioned about all the hundreds of jobs that would be created by all this, well from what I have seen of this sort of thing in the past you could have a warehouse as big as 3 rugby fields and only have 6 guys on forklifts working in it so I think that number of jobs could be very much exaggerated, but anyway these are just my thoughts and I do realise that I am in a very big minority so I think it will just be a case of wait and see what comes of it all.

BTW you still havent answered my original question.

What % of Wakefields greenbelt would this development wipe out?

As you did state it would wipe out a large chunk.

Do you honestly believe that a stadium built in isolation(even if it was financially viable) wouldnt then lead to further development?

Re: The Problem With Newmarket : Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:27 pm  

stanleyman wrote:

I promise you I have come on here with no agenda other than to put across my point on why I am opposed to the industrialisation of the Newmarket site, I do realise that I am going to get no support for what I believe is the greater good of our community from you folks on here as you are all wildcats fans and you all want this to happen, and I dare say that in the long run you will be proved to be right and this will all go ahead but if I and others just sat back and watched it happen without making our voices heard then we would not be being true to our beliefs, another point you make is that the wildcats would be shafted as you put it if this ground does not go ahead well to be honest I don’t know about that all I do know is that rugby has been played in Wakefield for over 100 years and I am sure this would continue to be the case as I am sure there are other suitable sites. As other people have mentioned about all the hundreds of jobs that would be created by all this, well from what I have seen of this sort of thing in the past you could have a warehouse as big as 3 rugby fields and only have 6 guys on forklifts working in it so I think that number of jobs could be very much exaggerated, but anyway these are just my thoughts and I do realise that I am in a very big minority so I think it will just be a case of wait and see what comes of it all.

Just listen to yourself. That is utterly ridiculous - just which 'community' do you represent? The one that lives on Newmarket Lane, or the one which includes 15,000 folk who have voted to say yes to the need for a stadium, or the one that includes families struggling to find work in these difficult times.

That last phrase is a threat by any other name. If I were you I would keep my powder dry for now, as you clearly wish to de-rail the train - but we will be making sure it stays right on track - and we believe that we have the 'community' interests very much at heart!

Re: The Problem With Newmarket : Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:27 pm  

1 if theres an award for bravest post of the year, well you left it late but you have won it!
2. I await the arrival of sandal cat with his knowledge of the brown belt issues which will see your argument dissolve in to oblivion. EDIT SEE ABOVE!!!!!
3. Id happily pay you in to the first game at the new ground should it happen, for being brave enought to at least be honest, trust me its great and youd come back!
4.Industrial units do bring jobs, yes there are 6 people in fork lifts yoou can see outside, most of the people work inside the buildings, its like a house you see, just because you cant see the people does not mean they dont live there, maybe we could build glass industrial units??
5. happy new year anyway!