: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:31 am  

PAUL M wrote:

Lets not ignore the fact he is on fire at present eh? Why does everyone insist on players being pcked on form yet with Harmison the rule does not apply.

Listened to Warne yesterday and he said the two bowlers that the aussies are genuinely scared of are Flintoff and Harmo, the wy Harmison is bowling he has to come in for the next Test at the expense of either Broad or Onions. Broad's batting will probaby get him the nod.

Broad will definitely play, particularly if Bell has to replace Pietersen. I dont think Onions did enough to clinch a position in all conditions. I'd choose between him and Harmison depending on the playing conditions.

: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:42 am  

Asim wrote:

It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that every Aussie asked is keen to talk up Harmison, I wonder why that is.....

Well you are obviously right I mean he has never bowled well against them has he.

I remember people on here a few weeks ago moaning that Flintoff would get straight back into the side, that worked out poorly didn't it....

: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:50 am  

Onions would be unlucky to lose his place given his start to his test match career but he may well lose out due to the fact Broad bats better and we'll need that at times.

Harmison must come in to the side imo as he's in the sort of form that will threaten the best batsmen in the world and thats what Australia have.

I'd be cautious about taking Harmison on any tour ever again tbh but i'd play him in an home ashes series when he's at the top of his game every time.

Onions out and Harmison in.

: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:27 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

Onions would be unlucky to lose his place given his start to his test match career but he may well lose out due to the fact Broad bats better and we'll need that at times.

Harmison must come in to the side imo as he's in the sort of form that will threaten the best batsmen in the world and thats what Australia have.

I'd be cautious about taking Harmison on any tour ever again tbh but i'd play him in an home ashes series when he's at the top of his game every time.

Onions out and Harmison in.

Agreed - though it's a tough call on Onions who bowled fairly well last week.

: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:35 pm  

PAUL M wrote:

Well you are obviously right I mean he has never bowled well against them has he.

He has, once, in the first test in 2005 when he took 8 wickets.

His average against Australia is about 43.

He's largeyl been worse than useless for England since 2004, why there is this big myth built up about his ability is beyond me, one or two good displays from him seem to carry an amazing amount of weight with some people.

: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:40 pm  

Hughes apart (who does seem to struggle with the short stuff), where the Australians are most vulnerable is to the full, swinging delivery. IMO Hoggard would be much more effective against this line-up than Harmison's pace and bounce.

: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:56 pm  

Asim wrote:

He has, once, in the first test in 2005 when he took 8 wickets.

His average against Australia is about 43.

He's largeyl been worse than useless for England since 2004, why there is this big myth built up about his ability is beyond me, one or two good displays from him seem to carry an amazing amount of weight with some people.

So on that basis how does Broad get into the side? Looking at his bowling stats and how relatively ineffective he has been so far in this series he hardly warrants a place. He does not have enough pace so has to rely on moving the ball but he has not really done that a great deal so far. At least Harmison has the pace and bounce which could trouble batsmen. Looking at Onions he was not particularly impressive in this match and actually seems to be consistently expensive in his spells.

Harmison is the leading wicket taker in the country and is troubling batsmen with his pace and bounce. I am not his biggest fan and he does bring a lot of baggage but with the form he is now I really don;t think he can be left out.

: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:39 pm  

PAUL M wrote:

So on that basis how does Broad get into the side? Looking at his bowling stats and how relatively ineffective he has been so far in this series he hardly warrants a place. He does not have enough pace so has to rely on moving the ball but he has not really done that a great deal so far. At least Harmison has the pace and bounce which could trouble batsmen. Looking at Onions he was not particularly impressive in this match and actually seems to be consistently expensive in his spells.

Broad isn't in the team solely for his bowling though, if he was I don't think you could argue that strongly for him being in the side but, as long as the selectors demand stronger batting down the order, he is safe so there isn't a Broad or Harmison situation.

PAUL M wrote:

Harmison is the leading wicket taker in the country and is troubling batsmen with his pace and bounce. I am not his biggest fan and he does bring a lot of baggage but with the form he is now I really don;t think he can be left out.

Onions still has the best FC average in the country, he's been earning that while playing tests while Harmison knocks over plodders in the CC. Harmison may well have more pace and bounce, but we're playing on English wickets and in conditions where variety and swing are much bigger factors. As long as Flintoff is fit to bowl we don't need to bring anyone else in because they can bowl fast and make people feel uncomfortable for a bit, because Flintoff does all that and more and the rest of the attack can bowl around him. If we left Broad out then Sidebottom should be first in line for a recall, he's bowled well for England these last couple of years and provides more variety and something a bit different.

Onions didn't have the best figures in the world this week, but he did a decent job for the team and has done nothing to deserve being left out for, unless we want to get back to the bad old days of English cricket where it takes ages for someone to get their chance then they get jettisoned straight away if they fail, or the first time they have a bad game, though Onions doesn't even fall into either of those categories.

The England team will not benefit at all from continuing this cycle where Harmison gets dropped, knocks over a few CC batsmen, get's back in, let's us down, then get's dropped again. It's time to move on.

: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:44 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Hughes apart (who does seem to struggle with the short stuff), where the Australians are most vulnerable is to the full, swinging delivery. IMO Hoggard would be much more effective against this line-up than Harmison's pace and bounce.

hope this does not mean we lose the ashes 4-nil

: Tue Jul 21, 2009 1:48 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

First at Lords you mean

freddie is very fast 1st fiver wicket haul since 2005 we wonder what warnie and mcgrath are saying about this