Re: The Football Chat Thread : Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:04 am  

For reasons that are unclear to me, City supporters seem to believe that there are only two ways of playing football

1) Be outrageously dull, bore the crap off you for 90 minutes and somewhere along the line the trophies will flow
2) Be attack minded or "gung-ho", be useless in defence and go back to being the "same old City"

Now I might be wrong here but the genuine quality sides over the years manage to get a nice blend of the two. That's what wins games of football and that is what wins trophies.

Mancini's clear philosophy is to get the defence right, protect the back four with a massive overkill of defensive midfielders and then rely on a spot of individual brilliance from someone to get us more than a point. The problem with this is that if Tevez or Silva (or Johnson in one of his ten minute cameos) doesn't produce that bit of magic, we're goosed.

I'm really alarmed at the amount of people who seem to think that going on the attack is "gung-ho". If EE believes that the Newcastle game was "gung-ho" then I am absolutely flabbergasted. We had a fews shots from a few attacks. It was hardly caution to the wind stuff. 6 shots on, 5 shots off I think it was. Wolves manage that every week against big four clubs!

Forget this nonsense about being "gung-ho", all that is required is to pressure the opposition a bit more, have one or two of the midfielders be prepared to overlap the central striker now and again. Our entire three man midfield has got two goals this season and it isn't going to get any better with the current philosophy. Every single other team I see in the Premier League know how to turn the screw. We can't even do that. I'd wager we have less corners and less possession round the opponents box than almost anyone in the league - including the poop teams.

In answer to Blobby's question. I'd rather not replace him. I'd rather he see the error of his ways, because as you say, there is no-one really that springs to mind. Unfortunately, I'd be amazed if he ever saw the light.

In answer to EE, Zabaleta has been fantastic over recent weeks, although he's still positionally a bit suspect. Maybe a bit too "gung-ho" at times To get the balance right though, Kolarov now needs to be given his place in the side.

In answer to EE's "we were conceding goals because of weight of pressure". Two things:-

1) I don't think we were. In absurd games against Burnley, Hull, Fulham, Bolton etc, we were slapping in about 20 shots to 2 and getting draws as they plundered goals from virtually their only attacks. Bridge, Richards, Toure and Lescott were dropping clangers left right and centre

2) However, if it was weight of pressure, then that only goes to prove my point. Pressurising teams brings goals, so why the hell don't we try doing it once or twice ourselves, instead of this one-paced walking business around the centre circle?

All in all, having watched City for so long, it's reasonably sure to assume I don't go simply for the possibility of winning trophies. In a couple of weeks I am out of work again with little prospect of anything on the horizon. I'd like to think that the extortionate percentage of my money I spend watching the team would provide me with the highlight of the week. At the moment, it provides me with 90 minutes of boredom more often than not and has done since the turn of the year. I'm not asking for Barcelona but I see no reason whatsoever why we just can't play in a style that the top teams play in this country and one that is a proven winner.

People need to start realising that we have £325 million of talent at our disposal. For that sort of outlay it beggars belief that we believe we need to set up our line up to counteract what Wolves, Wigan and West Ham are going to throw at us. We should be asking the questions of inferior teams not the other way round, and I can't believe the preposterous amount of people who are defending this blatantly negative outlook.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:19 am  

Enfield Exile wrote:

Silva not a big game player? How do you explain that he was Spain's best player, and arguably the player of the tournament, at Euro 2008? It is arguable that no United player has performed so well on such a big stage. Silva was by no means top drawer last night but what doylu expect when he often had no-one in front of him, and when he did we were outnumbered 3 to 1. He also spent more time in our half. He is still a far better player than Scholes was at his peak. As proven by performances at international level.

I don't know if you're on a wind-up or not with this mate.
Silva wasn't Spain's best player in 2008 (by a farirly long way) and in actual fact he was the only regular starter of Spain's midfield that didn't get in the "players of the tournament" squad. I know that is a totally subjective accolade but it tells some kind of a story surely??

I think you are trying to build him into something that he really isn't. Yes, he's an excellent footballer with skills and abilities that few can dream of but to say he was arguably the best player of Euro 2008 and is a far better player than Scholes at his peak is ludicrous. Scholes was/is as close to the perfect all-round midfielder as has been around these past 10-15 years (despite a tackling technique that is woeful). And if Zinedine Zidane amongst plenty of others recognise that then that's good enough for me.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:20 am  

I completely agree with Holloway, what's the point in 25-man squads if half of them are not deemed good enough by the EPL / FA to figure in league competition? I applaud his honesty and his defiance. Let's be honest, a fine for Blackpool is a lot more damaging than it is for any other EPL club.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:33 am  

Ordsall Quays Red wrote:

I don't know if you're on a wind-up or not with this mate.
Silva wasn't Spain's best player in 2008 (by a farirly long way) and in actual fact he was the only regular starter of Spain's midfield that didn't get in the "players of the tournament" squad. I know that is a totally subjective accolade but it tells some kind of a story surely??

I think you are trying to build him into something that he really isn't. Yes, he's an excellent footballer with skills and abilities that few can dream of but to say he was arguably the best player of Euro 2008 and is a far better player than Scholes at his peak is ludicrous. Scholes was/is as close to the perfect all-round midfielder as has been around these past 10-15 years (despite a tackling technique that is woeful). And if Zinedine Zidane amongst plenty of others recognise that then that's good enough for me.

EE was like that with Elano. These people have to have a dream to cling onto so don't spoil it!

To be fair, Silva is a class above Elano, he's not work shy and doesn't get disheartened when things don't come off. After an iffy start he has been genuinely class for us. It's just a damned shame there aren't more like him but talent like that does not grow on trees.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:38 am  

Ordsall Quays Red wrote:

I don't know if you're on a wind-up or not with this mate.
Silva wasn't Spain's best player in 2008 (by a farirly long way) and in actual fact he was the only regular starter of Spain's midfield that didn't get in the "players of the tournament" squad. I know that is a totally subjective accolade but it tells some kind of a story surely??

I think you are trying to build him into something that he really isn't. Yes, he's an excellent footballer with skills and abilities that few can dream of but to say he was arguably the best player of Euro 2008 and is a far better player than Scholes at his peak is ludicrous. Scholes was/is as close to the perfect all-round midfielder as has been around these past 10-15 years (despite a tackling technique that is woeful). And if Zinedine Zidane amongst plenty of others recognise that then that's good enough for me.

You beat me to it mate.

I was hoping for Silva to come to United as he does look the part, and when I saw City earlier this season that view wasn't changed. I just expected more of him last night. It's been a while since I was genuinely excited to see a City player in action.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:40 am  

D.D. wrote:

EE was like that with Elano. These people have to have a dream to cling onto so don't spoil it!

To be fair, Silva is a class above Elano, he's not work shy and doesn't get disheartened when things don't come off. After an iffy start he has been genuinely class for us. It's just a damned shame there aren't more like him but talent like that does not grow on trees.

In his first four months, Elano was excellent. You cannot deny it. We weren't to know that eh was psychologically weak.

Silva is far better.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:42 am  

Enfield Exile wrote:

In his first four months, Elano was excellent. You cannot deny it. We weren't to know that eh was psychologically weak.

Silva is far better.

To be fair, I commented in November of that year that Elano was vastly overrated and was greeted with a torrent of abuse on both here and the City forums.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:44 am  

D.D. wrote:

For reasons that are unclear to me, City supporters seem to believe that there are only two ways of playing football

1) Be outrageously dull, bore the crap off you for 90 minutes and somewhere along the line the trophies will flow
2) Be attack minded or "gung-ho", be useless in defence and go back to being the "same old City"

Now I might be wrong here but the genuine quality sides over the years manage to get a nice blend of the two. That's what wins games of football and that is what wins trophies.

Mancini's clear philosophy is to get the defence right, protect the back four with a massive overkill of defensive midfielders and then rely on a spot of individual brilliance from someone to get us more than a point. The problem with this is that if Tevez or Silva (or Johnson in one of his ten minute cameos) doesn't produce that bit of magic, we're goosed.

I'm really alarmed at the amount of people who seem to think that going on the attack is "gung-ho". If EE believes that the Newcastle game was "gung-ho" then I am absolutely flabbergasted. We had a fews shots from a few attacks. It was hardly caution to the wind stuff. 6 shots on, 5 shots off I think it was. Wolves manage that every week against big four clubs!

Forget this nonsense about being "gung-ho", all that is required is to pressure the opposition a bit more, have one or two of the midfielders be prepared to overlap the central striker now and again. Our entire three man midfield has got two goals this season and it isn't going to get any better with the current philosophy. Every single other team I see in the Premier League know how to turn the screw. We can't even do that. I'd wager we have less corners and less possession round the opponents box than almost anyone in the league - including the poop teams.

In answer to Blobby's question. I'd rather not replace him. I'd rather he see the error of his ways, because as you say, there is no-one really that springs to mind. Unfortunately, I'd be amazed if he ever saw the light.

In answer to EE, Zabaleta has been fantastic over recent weeks, although he's still positionally a bit suspect. Maybe a bit too "gung-ho" at times To get the balance right though, Kolarov now needs to be given his place in the side.

In answer to EE's "we were conceding goals because of weight of pressure". Two things:-

1) I don't think we were. In absurd games against Burnley, Hull, Fulham, Bolton etc, we were slapping in about 20 shots to 2 and getting draws as they plundered goals from virtually their only attacks. Bridge, Richards, Toure and Lescott were dropping clangers left right and centre

2) However, if it was weight of pressure, then that only goes to prove my point. Pressurising teams brings goals, so why the hell don't we try doing it once or twice ourselves, instead of this one-paced walking business around the centre circle?

All in all, having watched City for so long, it's reasonably sure to assume I don't go simply for the possibility of winning trophies. In a couple of weeks I am out of work again with little prospect of anything on the horizon. I'd like to think that the extortionate percentage of my money I spend watching the team would provide me with the highlight of the week. At the moment, it provides me with 90 minutes of boredom more often than not and has done since the turn of the year. I'm not asking for Barcelona but I see no reason whatsoever why we just can't play in a style that the top teams play in this country and one that is a proven winner.

People need to start realising that we have £325 million of talent at our disposal. For that sort of outlay it beggars belief that we believe we need to set up our line up to counteract what Wolves, Wigan and West Ham are going to throw at us. We should be asking the questions of inferior teams not the other way round, and I can't believe the preposterous amount of people who are defending this blatantly negative outlook.

Dave, I want to give your post justice and write a response but I am rushing around as my daughter is ill and I need to get home. I will try and remember to reply next week (probably by PM).

Just wanted to say that I too want us to play more attacking football. We need to be a bit more patient. If it is still like this at the end of teh season, then I will be saying exactly teh same as you. Let's not forget that Mancini has only been in post for 11 months.

As for being "gung-ho" against Newcastle...Sometime during the second-half we played with two in midfield, two wingers and two strikers, and we got bodies in the box. That’s “gung-ho” relative to the way Mancini sets-up the team. Yes, we scored a goal but Newcastle were running through midfield for fun and looked far more dangerous. We were very lucky in that last 30mins. Defensively, that was the most vulnerable we have looked all season. It was also the last time I can remember us getting forward so much.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:45 am  

D.D. wrote:

To be fair, I commented in November of that year that Elano was vastly overrated and was greeted with a torrent of abuse on both here and the City forums.

A broken clock is right twice a day...

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:54 am  

I'm still waiting for Michael(better than all of United's midfield) Johnson to emerge at City. The new Martin Phillips.