Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:00 pm  

El Pac Carnegie wrote:

One swallow does not a summer make. Liverpool did murder Utd but I seem to remember Liverpool being clear at the top at the time of Rafa's rant. It all seemed a bit Kevin Keegan and while Liverpool fans remember the 4-1 victory I'm sure it would have meant more to them to win the title.

But we were apparently never good enough to win the league, as we apparently punched well above our weight finishing second.

My view on things were pretty clear: I don't think the 'rant' affected the players anywhere near as much as some like to think, it was more of a coincidence than a sudden caving in to pressure, IMO.

Benitez is a great coach, always has been, always will be. His time (rightfully IMO) came to an end at Liverpool, the relationship between the manager and those that run the club were evidently broken, it was unknown how long it would take to get rid of the new owners, whilst I'm sure Benitez agreed that change was needed. I'd still be happy for Benitez to come back to Liverpool with some form of director of football above him, not that I feel he needs undermining, I just feel his biggest weakness was his identifying of suitable players for us. He signed some good players, but also signed some dross that really harmed his chances of competing at the very top. See, I'm not a blind Rafaphile like some, but I'm also not a blind critic of his. Still, I'd rather him over Roy.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:28 pm  

El Pac Carnegie wrote:

One swallow does not a summer make. Liverpool did murder Utd but I seem to remember Liverpool being clear at the top at the time of Rafa's rant. It all seemed a bit Kevin Keegan and while Liverpool fans remember the 4-1 victory I'm sure it would have meant more to them to win the title.

Liverpool had dropped lots of silly points at home to teams like Hull, West Ham, Stoke and Fulham long before Benitez's "rant", between that and the shoeing they gave United at Old Trafford they did the same against a couple more teams. Their failings had become apparent long before that incident whatever United fans, or the tabloids, wish to claim.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:07 pm  

Also went onto draw the next 3 games and give up the championship lead after his rant. The game at old trafford was simply a must win and a great performance that day. Nothing to do with a rant two months before. It was his rant and making himself and the club look stupid, that put the team in the position in the first place. Also making crazy substitutions when you needed goals. I think there was a strange one at Stoke a defender for Torres at 0-0. Easily one the most knowledgable posters on here, but wrong in a huuge way on this point.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:12 pm  

Nikaed wrote:

Also went onto draw the next 3 games and give up the championship lead after his rant. The game at old trafford was simply a must win and a great performance that day. Nothing to do with a rant two months before. It was his rant and making himself and the club look stupid, that put the team in the position in the first place. Also making crazy substitutions when you needed goals. I think there was a strange one at Stoke a defender for Torres at 0-0. Easily one the most knowledgable posters on here, but wrong in a huuge way on this point.

What lost Liverpool the title was the overall weakness of the squad and our inability to replace the irreplaceable. A 'rant' by the manager that apparently affected us over a 3/4 week period simply doesn't dictate a season in its entirety. If Benitez's rant affected us in such a way, it would have dictated the results against Madrid and United, but it didn't, as it was purely poor form on the field that coincided with the rant. He did make his own mistakes that season with regards to tactics and so on, but I can't believe that a rant at an arch rival's manager would affect us in such a negative way, I just can't accept that a side of such professionals would allow it to affect them negatively.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:16 pm  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

I just can't accept that a side of such professionals would allow it to affect them negatively.

You mean like how an ownership issue did?

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:18 pm  

Asim wrote:

Liverpool had dropped lots of silly points at home to teams like Hull, West Ham, Stoke and Fulham long before Benitez's "rant", between that and the shoeing they gave United at Old Trafford they did the same against a couple more teams. Their failings had become apparent long before that incident whatever United fans, or the tabloids, wish to claim.

Even with the "silly points" lost, they were still top of the league at the time of the rant. Whatever the failings that Liverpool had, they had still outperformed Man United when he chose to go off on one. Just as he receives praise for the CL and FA cup wins which may have had little to do with him, he deserves ridicule for losing it in the manner he did.

Liverpool had been top 6 weeks when he went on his rant. Liverpool had just had 3-0 and 5-1 victories. Benitez had his rant, Liverpool then drew twice, lost top spot and never regained it.

Man United were in 3rd when Benitez had his outburst. Two wins then followed, top spot achieved and never relinquished.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:36 am  

Nikaed wrote:

You mean like how an ownership issue did?

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:48 am  

Nikaed wrote:

You mean like how an ownership issue did?

That's different though Mark and you know it is. Just look at how Rooney has been this season for proof of how what those at the top say can affect players. Gerrard, Torres, Reina, Masch and the rest all had chances to move away but rejected them because they were told this club would compete for titles and be competitive in the transfer market. When the proof of that competitiveness is seeing the best players sold, it's virtually impossible for them to be happy with the way the club was being run. You see, the manager having a go at another manager is the manager's own thing - he's trying to protect his players and whatever; the chief execs lying to players which, in return, dictates their career, is an absolute different kettle of fish.

So, yeah, the ownership issue would obviously affect players when they're given opportunities to leave the club to better, more competitive teams but stay because those at the top say our club will match those teams.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:51 am  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

That's different though Mark and you know it is. Just look at how Rooney has been this season for proof of how what those at the top say can affect players. Gerrard, Torres, Reina, Masch and the rest all had chances to move away but rejected them because they were told this club would compete for titles and be competitive in the transfer market. When the proof of that competitiveness is seeing the best players sold, it's virtually impossible for them to be happy with the way the club was being run. You see, the manager having a go at another manager is the manager's own thing - he's trying to protect his players and whatever; the chief execs lying to players which, in return, dictates their career, is an absolute different kettle of fish.

So, yeah, the ownership issue would obviously affect players when they're given opportunities to leave the club to better, more competitive teams but stay because those at the top say our club will match those teams.

Why do you bother?

Surely you can find other football forums to talk about the game that are not populated by WUM's and retards.

Re: The Football Chat Thread : Tue Nov 09, 2010 9:31 am  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

That's different though Mark and you know it is. Just look at how Rooney has been this season for proof of how what those at the top say can affect players. Gerrard, Torres, Reina, Masch and the rest all had chances to move away but rejected them because they were told this club would compete for titles and be competitive in the transfer market. When the proof of that competitiveness is seeing the best players sold, it's virtually impossible for them to be happy with the way the club was being run. You see, the manager having a go at another manager is the manager's own thing - he's trying to protect his players and whatever; the chief execs lying to players which, in return, dictates their career, is an absolute different kettle of fish.

So, yeah, the ownership issue would obviously affect players when they're given opportunities to leave the club to better, more competitive teams but stay because those at the top say our club will match those teams.

Didn't Rafa alienate Alonso? Hence Alonso wanting to leave?