Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:01 pm  

Bang wrote:

I'd love it if Newcastle crashed and burned.

Again?

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:14 pm  

Michael Ballack's retired. Where do people put him in terms of greatness? In terms of sheer all-round ability and leadership, has there been a better midfielder in the world over the past decade? Fantastic player who probably came to England at the wrong end of his career.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:14 pm  

Right, for a start, who has said Nolan/Barton/Carroll are 'rubbish'?

How are people defining 'best' players? Top three at the Club? Top five? Or simply starting XI? If it's the latter, then yes, they're our 'best' players. I certainly don't define it like that, though. It's the top three to top five in my book which then leaves Nolan trailing behind and Barton a possibilty as some may see him up there based on what they look for in a player. My top five (in no particular order) are: Tiote, Ben Arfa, José Enrique, Coloccini and Gutierrez. Barton's next in line after those.

Nolan and Barton did well for us last season, not doubting that. However, if we want to move on to the next level, they are two of the first who we need to be looking to replace. Next season, they both should have been bench players if we improve the squad as is being suggested. We seem to be looking to play attractive football under Pardew which is focussed around having fast, energetic players. Nolan and Barton don't fit into that mould. For what it's worth, I have complete faith in Graham Carr finding the players required to enable us to put together a team capable of playing good, free-flowing football with a big emphasis on an attacking mentality. We've already replaced Nolan with a current French international who I'm absolutely positive will be a better player than Nolan going by the little bits I've seen of him. Nolan is an extremely limited footballer, nobody can really argue otherwise. Him being a fantastic leader/captain and having the ability of pop up in the right position at times helps to cover up some of his major flaws.

On Nolan, I absolutely love the bloke and he'll forever go down as a Newcastle legend for me. He's been a key figure in one of the most enjoyable periods I've had as a Newcastle supporter. We owe him a hell of a lot for where we are now and I'll never forget what he's done for the Club. If it wasn't for him, we'd probably be in the Championship or League 1 at this point. Still, you can't go around paying a player of his ability £60k a week for another five years when he looks like he only has another year or two left at the top level. He moves on with my best wishes and I hope he returns in a coaching capacity one day.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:16 pm  

inside_man wrote:

I didn't think they were, wasn't it just an agents email that went round and not that of the club, as Quinns has denied I believe.

Ah ok. Made no sense a club like Sunderland getting rid of a player like Gyan.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:28 pm  

ash4hullfc wrote:

Where do Nolan and Barton fit into that then?

You seem to do this quite a lot, as soon as a player is set to leave your start talking him down.

From what I saw and have read Barton, Nolan, Carroll, Enrique etc were among your best players last season. As for Ben Arfa how many games did he play?

You have already answered your earlier comment about West Ham by saying you would probably not be where you are now without Nolan, maybe that's a clue as to why WH have spent the money for him?

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:46 pm  

PAUL M wrote:

You seem to do this quite a lot, as soon as a player is set to leave your start talking him down.

From what I saw and have read Barton, Nolan, Carroll, Enrique etc were among your best players last season. As for Ben Arfa how many games did he play?

You have already answered your earlier comment about West Ham by saying you would probably not be where you are now without Nolan, maybe that's a clue as to why WH have spent the money for him?

Do I? Who else have I done it with? If you want me to, I'll go through my posts and find where I questioned why Nolan won the Championship Player of the Year award last year which is a year before we sold him, unless I was just getting that one in early? He's a very limited footballer, that isn't talking him down, it's just the truth. I actually don't see how I've played anybody down either. I've just said both Nolan and Barton did well for us last season but they're two of the first we should be looking to improve upon given their attributes, don't see how that's talking them down?

When I was judging the best players, it was based on their general ability. Ben Arfa only played a few games but from what I've seen from his at his previous teams, he's clearly one of our best players. The players you named are all up there as being our better players during last season, yes, as were a few others you haven't named too.

£60k a week on him over five years though, really?

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:04 pm  

ash4hullfc wrote:

Do I? Who else have I done it with? If you want me to, I'll go through my posts and find where I questioned why Nolan won the Championship Player of the Year award last year which is a year before we sold him, unless I was just getting that one in early? He's a very limited footballer, that isn't talking him down, it's just the truth. I actually don't see how I've played anybody down either. I've just said both Nolan and Barton did well for us last season but they're two of the first we should be looking to improve upon given their attributes, don't see how that's talking them down?

When I was judging the best players, it was based on their general ability. Ben Arfa only played a few games but from what I've seen from his at his previous teams, he's clearly one of our best players. The players you named are all up there as being our better players during last season, yes, as were a few others you haven't named too.

£60k a week on him over five years though, really?

Check the posts all you like, and previous sigs etc. I don't care tbh, Newcastle are not my concern.

Last year Nolan's goals and Bartons general play was very important to you as was Enrique, Carroll and Jonas. So when I said being concerned about losing your best players that is exactly what I meant. Right now you have only lost Nolan but there is plenty of transfer speculation surrounding a few of them.

Arfa is still an unknown quantity in the PL but does look a good player.

Where did I say Nolan was worth that money? My point was WH want to get promoted and Nolan is a perfect signing in terms of his character, goals and leadership. I would not say he is limited he just has certain strengths like any players does.

Well I named 4/5 players and you named some more, if there some that have not been mentioned then you must have a hell of a lot of 'best' players. Over the last two years Barton, Nolan, Colloccini, Jonas and Enrique have all played a big part as did Carroll. So therefore they would be in my eyes amongst your best players. If Nolan does for WH what he did for you then his money will seem like peanuts.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:46 pm  

ash4hullfc wrote:

How are people defining 'best' players? Top three at the Club? Top five? Or simply starting XI? If it's the latter, then yes, they're our 'best' players. I certainly don't define it like that, though. It's the top three to top five in my book which then leaves Nolan trailing behind and Barton a possibilty as some may see him up there based on what they look for in a player. My top five (in no particular order) are: Tiote, Ben Arfa, José Enrique, Coloccini and Gutierrez. Barton's next in line after those.

Eh? How the hell do you put Ben Arfa ahead of Barton? He got injured in October so how can you say he's ahead of Barton after the season that he had, Ben Arfa's hardly played. Reputation going before him bigtime there. Nolan likewise, those two where stand out players for Newcastle last season, Tiote had a solid season too.

ash4hullfc wrote:

Nolan and Barton did well for us last season, not doubting that. However, if we want to move on to the next level, they are two of the first who we need to be looking to replace. Next season, they both should have been bench players if we improve the squad as is being suggested. We seem to be looking to play attractive football under Pardew which is focussed around having fast, energetic players. Nolan and Barton don't fit into that mould. For what it's worth, I have complete faith in Graham Carr finding the players required to enable us to put together a team capable of playing good, free-flowing football with a big emphasis on an attacking mentality. We've already replaced Nolan with a current French international who I'm absolutely positive will be a better player than Nolan going by the little bits I've seen of him. Nolan is an extremely limited footballer, nobody can really argue otherwise. Him being a fantastic leader/captain and having the ability of pop up in the right position at times helps to cover up some of his major flaws.

So they should now be bench players? why exactly, age? ability? performances? Both played out of their skin last season. There's no telling that Tiote will be as good next season, how will the all conquering Ben Arfa comeback from his injury? Cabeye could be awful, he had a good season in the French league - wouldn't exactly fill me with confidence coming to the PL.

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:07 pm  

i remember you slagging carroll off till the cows came home when he signed for liverpool but i aint that sad to prove that tbh

Re: Football Chat Thread : Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:22 pm  

Dan_FC wrote:

he had a good season in the French league - wouldn't exactly fill me with confidence coming to the PL.

You'd rather your players come with Npower Championship pedigree, wouldn't you, Dan?