Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:05 am  

McClennan wrote:

http://www.newstatesman.com/lifestyle/lifestyle/2012/06/football-tactics-have-got-out-shape

It always fascinates me when articles refer to England's 1966 formation. At the time it was usually described as 4-3-3 which always puzzled me since there were only 2 strikers! This article describes it as 4-4-2 but it didnt bear any resemblance to the 4-4-2 that England currently play. It didnt have 2 out and out wide players in midfield (the popular headline at the time was "Ramsey's wingless wonders").

I reckon Sir Alf actually invented the diamond. Stiles playing in front of the back four. Ball & Peters split right and left, occassionally getting out to the flanks (as when Ball created Hurst's 2nd "goal") but more often tucked inside. Charlton given more freedom to attack. The flexibility of Charlton, Ball & Peters made it a very fluid formation. And very different to the one with which Ramsey started the tournament.

Ramsey justifiably got credit for England winning the WC. But it always seemed to be for his leadership and man management skills. I dont think he ever received the credit he deserved for his tactical nous.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:24 pm  

Is it me, or has the standard in these Euros been terrible?? 5 of the 8 Quarter Finalists are sh*te (or at least have been in this tournament so far).

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:31 pm  

Conroy wrote:

Is it me, or has the standard in these Euros been terrible?? 5 of the 8 Quarter Finalists are sh*te (or at least have been in this tournament so far).

Well Greece were. How did they expect to win playing like that?
They must have been watching England.
Sides that don't have a go at the risk of being outclassed deserve to lose. Also if a side can't hold the ball for half a dozen passes, what chance do they stand?
Sides that can't hold the ball for at least half a dozen passes need to go away and learn how to do it. And that includes England.
Which doesn't mean to say they can't win this thing, but the odds are stacked against them.

So sides like Portugal, Germany and Spain progress because they do have a go and have skill. And long may it continue.

I just don't think that England will ever learn that it is mainly about skill. Teach the kids skill for fook's sake.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:54 pm  

Conroy wrote:

Is it me, or has the standard in these Euros been terrible?? 5 of the 8 Quarter Finalists are sh*te (or at least have been in this tournament so far).

I think it's been generally good. Who are the five sh*te teams you speak of? I imagine two of the sides you think have been good are Spain and Germany? Who's the other side?

IMO, the quality of games has been pretty consistent with recent international tournaments. It's obvious that the club game is now the pinnacle of football, the international tournaments just drag the season out for players who simply can't wait to go on holiday after a long season.

With regards to the tournament, with the exception of Greece and the Czechs, I think the rest of the teams have it in them to win the tournament. England are pretty average but it doesn't take greatness to win a tournament, Greece proven that and the Italians sort of did as well in 2006. I've enjoyed both of the QFs so far, they were both very one-sided but the quality of Germany and Portugal has been very good.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:19 pm  

Roddy B wrote:

I think it's been generally good. Who are the five sh*te teams you speak of? I imagine two of the sides you think have been good are Spain and Germany? Who's the other side?

IMO, the quality of games has been pretty consistent with recent international tournaments. It's obvious that the club game is now the pinnacle of football, the international tournaments just drag the season out for players who simply can't wait to go on holiday after a long season.

With regards to the tournament, with the exception of Greece and the Czechs, I think the rest of the teams have it in them to win the tournament. England are pretty average but it doesn't take greatness to win a tournament, Greece proven that and the Italians sort of did as well in 2006. I've enjoyed both of the QFs so far, they were both very one-sided but the quality of Germany and Portugal has been very good.

Germany, Spain and Portugal have been pretty good. Spain apparently had an off day against Croatia but were superb against Italy and Ireland. England have been below par, Greece are crap, the Czech Republic were poor, Italy have been below par and so have France. The next two QF's could well see the tournament kick off as they have the potential to be crackers but the group stages really didn't thrill me.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:25 pm  

Thought the Germans done really well tonight, especially when you consider the dropped/rested their first choice front three. Rolls Reus was good, his finish was class. I think it's frightening how strong Germany's attacking options are, Gotze is better than any English player yet he's probably behind four players at the moment for a spot out wide, whilst he won't be replacing Ozil if he carries on like he did tonight. Boateng made a couple of bad mistakes, he fell asleep for the first but was unfortunate with the handball, but he still looked shaky. They don't seem to be getting out of third gear yet, yet they are coasting to victories and getting the bench players in on the act as well.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:40 pm  

Conroy wrote:

Germany, Spain and Portugal have been pretty good. Spain apparently had an off day against Croatia but were superb against Italy and Ireland. England have been below par, Greece are crap, the Czech Republic were poor, Italy have been below par and so have France. The next two QF's could well see the tournament kick off as they have the potential to be crackers but the group stages really didn't thrill me.

For me, Italy have been good but they aren't firing offensively. They're doing so much right but the end product isn't there at the moment, as I said, I think some people are forgetting how good they are (I'm not suggesting you are, I just think other people are). The French played pretty well against England without ever properly clicking, they done enough against Ukraine but apparently bombed against the Swedes. I still think there's potential for them to come out and truly dominate the tournament, but they lack the leadership that Zidane brought and their ego problems will more than likely derail their tournament.

With these tournaments being when they are, the chances of everybody playing top quality football are getting lower and lower. International breaks and so on are really extending seasons that are already long enough, the sport is becoming more and more demanding, which is resulting in players putting so much into their club seasons, they have very little left when it comes to the international calendar. I've enjoyed the tournament and tried to watch as much as possible, I agree it would be better if the Dutch and Croatians were there instead of the Greeks and Czechs, but that's the unfortunate situation with 'groups of death' and so on.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:43 am  

So IF england can navigate their way past italy, it set's up a mouth watering semi with the old enemy.....germany!

They'd be red hot favourites, which would suit us, but our record against them in major tournaments is not good.

We can beat them when our freedoms at risk, but not on a football field

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:16 am  

Stand-Offish wrote:

So sides like Portugal, Germany and Spain progress because they do have a go and have skill. And long may it continue.

I'm not sure how you can say that about Portugal?.....Yes, they have a go and show skill against opposition who they know they are superior or equal to, but, as proven against Germany, when up against better opponents, they revert to the negative, defensive football that you are criticising other sides for.

To be honest, I've nothing against sides who realise that there only chance of success is to set themselves up to be difficult to score against and just hope to pinch one themselves - Yes, it isn't pretty, but what would be the positive in going out there gung-ho and getting themselves battered?

As people have said before, football isn't just about attacking, surely good defence is as commendable as having your hopes dependant on the form of one man, which is definitely the case with the Portuguese?

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:36 am  

What I don't understand is people's conception that you either play defensively or gung-ho. How often do people watch football when they come up with these ideas?

You can be sound defensively but counter attack with crisp, flowing play. Similarly, you can keep the ball and move it around without having to throw bodies into the box. There are many ways to play football, more than just Stoke or Spain, but some people seem to forget that, especially when it comes to defending those who play the worst football.