Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:46 am  

My initial reaction to the reports was that it was probably mischief by Chelsea. Tempt United into making a bid for Mata but turn it down leaving United with more egg on face. Payback for Rooney. Then do a swap in summer. But the tone of the articles in a few papers seem to suggest the deal is likely.

To answer my own question, the only way I can see Mata fitting is if United sell Rooney. But if they were going to do that they might as well have given Kagawa an extended run in his best position whilst Rooney is out.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:43 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

My initial reaction to the reports was that it was probably mischief by Chelsea. Tempt United into making a bid for Mata but turn it down leaving United with more egg on face. Payback for Rooney. Then do a swap in summer.

Payback for Rooney? What did Man Utd do? Chelsea wanted Rooney, I think Rooney wanted Chelsea. Man United said "No effing way." Jose said Rooney needed to ask for a transfer if he wanted to leave. Rooney says nothing.

I think Chelsea were wasting their time trying to get a player they were unlikely to get. I think Rooney was again being a lover by wanting to leave Old Trafford. I'm struggling to imagine what Man Utd did wrong.

But the tone of the articles in a few papers seem to suggest the deal is likely.

Martin Samuel's tone worried me because I like reading his articles and most of the time I think he's pretty much correct.

But the rest of the media are a bunch of know-nothing dickheads who have written a million "done deal" stories that turn out to be nonsense. This has been a quiet, boring transfer window and they are desperate for something to write about. The disparity of the transfer fees for Mata indicates to me that they're all jumping on this to fill their papers but there's actually not much in it.

If Chelsea are truly wanting rid of Mata, I do think they might be leaking Mata's exit to Man United as a way of forcing someone like PSG or a Spanish side to jump in. But Mata to Manchester United makes absolutely no sense to me.

To answer my own question, the only way I can see Mata fitting is if United sell Rooney. But if they were going to do that they might as well have given Kagawa an extended run in his best position whilst Rooney is out.

I actually think Moyes should be trying to get Mata because signing Mata could be the thing that keeps him in his job. He's been dreadful so far, likely to miss out on the top 4, if he loses tonight I could see him getting the axe tomorrow (that's why I think they'll win tonight, only to be well beaten in the final). Signing Juan Mata from Chelsea would be such a boost for United I think it would buy him a couple of seasons. It would be a stunning signing for Moyes and proof he can bring players in.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:16 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

If Mata went to United for 32m I'm off to London to give Roman and Jose a beating.

Is just under £37 million enough to appease you, or is your fighting mission to London still on??....

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:33 pm  

Will Mata be enough to propel us to trophies? Who knows, but, it would be a major coup for Utd AND for Moyes, and it would be something of a kick in the teeth for Everton, Liverpool and Spurs chasing 4th, as i believe a signing like Mata, and getting Rooney/RVP back WILL be enough to get us to 4th

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:48 pm  

100% Wire wrote:

Will Mata be enough to propel us to trophies? Who knows, but, it would be a major coup for Utd AND for Moyes, and it would be something of a kick in the teeth for Everton, Liverpool and Spurs chasing 4th, as i believe a signing like Mata, and getting Rooney/RVP back WILL be enough to get us to 4th

It will certainly cushion the blow of when Rooney and Van Persie leave in the summer, and will be a good start in what will be a fairly substantial rebuild of the United squad.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:49 pm  

Perhaps the nearest similarity in sport to taking a penalty would be walking out to bat in a test match.

Ricky Ponting recently described the 16 point checklist that he went through before facing his first ball. Some of it was fairly banal ("take out chewing gum") and a touch OCD (saying "watch the ball" twice as the bowler ran in). But there was also a lot of stuff that made sense regarding the pace at which he walked to the wicket, the routine he went through when he arrived at the wicket. All geared up to making sure that when he was ready to face the ball his state of mind was "what will be will be"

It did strike me tonight that a simplified checklist might be useful for some, not all, inexperienced penalty takers.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:31 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

Is just under £37 million enough to appease you, or is your fighting mission to London still on??....

TBH while most of Chelsea's dumbest decisions have had Roman's fingerprints all over them I think he's blameless on this. I think that this sale will go against what Roman wants, and he's allowing it simply because he's given Jose the freedom to build his own side - which is exactly what I wanted him to do.

If I really, really dig for positives from this then I'd say that buying Mata will buy David Moyes extra time at Manchester United. And seeing that I don't think he's a top level boss (I mean he can't even beat Sunderland over 2 legs in a semi final of the only competition they could win) this is actually a good thing.

But in truth I just think this a Kevin Keegan seling Andy Cole to the Mancs type sale.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:39 am  

Two things strike me about the Mata deal (if the £37m being accepted is true). 1) It's more than Man Utd's offers for Fabregas IIRC, which just about confirms that their offers for him in the summer were stupid/insulting. 2) Is this Chelsea saying that they don't see Man Utd as rivals now?

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:00 am  

carl_spackler wrote:

Is this Chelsea saying that they don't see Man Utd as rivals now?

For me Chelsea are taking the best offer we can get. We'd have preferred to have sold him abroad, but no comparable offers were made.

Man United have hopefully dipped far enough that they aren't rivals this season. But they'll probably be rivals next season and they'd be rivals next season even if they didn't buy Mata, because they'd have just bought someone else instead.

Despite what Wenger said, I don't think the reason we didn't loan Ba to Arsenal was because we saw them as competitors. I just think that the loan of Lukaku worked out far better for us. Ba is pretty much 3rd choice back up and we are prepared to let him sit on the bench. Lukaku would have suffered a lot more than Ba will.

It's more than Man Utd's offers for Fabregas IIRC, which just about confirms that their offers for him in the summer were stupid/insulting.

Barca paid 35m for Fabregas. Has he really developed any more since leaving Arsenal. Seeing as Barca were spending big on Neymar they could have got lucky.

Don't forget Arsenal were offering 40m for Suarez at the same time. Most clubs at least were trying to claim FFP hardships as a way to not overpay for players.

Re: Football Chat Thread PART II : Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:58 am  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

For me Chelsea are taking the best offer we can get. We'd have preferred to have sold him abroad, but no comparable offers were made.

Man United have hopefully dipped far enough that they aren't rivals this season. But they'll probably be rivals next season and they'd be rivals next season even if they didn't buy Mata, because they'd have just bought someone else instead.

Despite what Wenger said, I don't think the reason we didn't loan Ba to Arsenal was because we saw them as competitors. I just think that the loan of Lukaku worked out far better for us. Ba is pretty much 3rd choice back up and we are prepared to let him sit on the bench. Lukaku would have suffered a lot more than Ba will.

I think I'm more surprised that they're letting it happen now, rather than wait and see what takers there are in the summer. Unless Chelsea just think that Man Utd's desperation right now means they'll get peak price for him.

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

Barca paid 35m for Fabregas. Has he really developed any more since leaving Arsenal. Seeing as Barca were spending big on Neymar they could have got lucky.

Don't forget Arsenal were offering 40m for Suarez at the same time. Most clubs at least were trying to claim FFP hardships as a way to not overpay for players.

It was supposedly £35m plus add-ons up to £40m. Seeing as Barcelona have won pretty much everything that's probably near to the full £40m. I don't think Man Utd were ever going to get so lucky as for Barcelona to sell him for less than they paid when he's still approaching/in his prime years. It may be contentious, but I also just personally think he's the better player of the two and slightly more suited to Man Utd's needs. Fabregas would be around the Ozil price, their first offer was less than they ultimately paid for Fellaini.

And don't you forget that the reason Arsenal were offering £40m (+ £1) for Suarez was because they thought that it would trigger a release clause Liverpool would not be able to refuse. As soon as they learnt different they dropped out of the running, probably because they realised how much it would take to get him and how much they'd just vexed Liverpool off.