: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:10 pm  

Gaslight wrote:

Revis, Asomguah, Bodden, Bailey off the top of my head are better then Woodson, but he would come right after them 4. I think the DB who gets the least credit for his ability is probably Brandon Merriweather, he's turning into a proper ball hawk this year, and next year with a better pass rush he will look even better.

Dear god... Woodson is ridiculously better than Bodden, are you a Pats fan??

Asomugha, Newman, Woodson, Bailey and Samuel.. Revis is up there but i'm not giving him top 5 status yet.

Merriweather got exposed against the Saints but he is having a real good season.

: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:12 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

I think they will take us close but i'm hopefull we can get a win.

I know i always bring Rodgers up, but he is performing at a level equal to Breesus, Brady, Favre and Manning with the worst line in the NFL. Why doesn't he get mentioned in the same breath as them when since he has started (both this year and last) he has played to the same level. If they are MVP candidates why isn't he? I'm absolutely convinced he is the 5th best QB (at least) in the NFL.

Aaron Kampman. Right up there for the last few years with Merriman and Ware in sacks. Again why doesn't he ever get mentioned when they are? Admittedly it is different now we are a 3-4.

Greg Jennings. Excellent reciever. Doesn't get much credit around the league.

Charles Woodson. The best defensive player in the league this year. Yet when people talk about the best defensive players it is Jared Allen, Troy Polamalu, Bob Sanders. I'd bet people wouldn't even rate Woodson in the top 3 corners in the NFL.

I'm not suggesting we are the best team in the NFL or that we have the best players, but our great players do not get enough recognition either from the media or other fans. Both just assume we are a small market team and don't consider any of our players worthy for the big accolades.

To be honest i'd have Dumervill as the top Defensive player of this year

: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:22 pm  

Gaslight wrote:

Revis, Asomguah, Bodden, Bailey off the top of my head are better then Woodson, but he would come right after them 4. I think the DB who gets the least credit for his ability is probably Brandon Merriweather, he's turning into a proper ball hawk this year, and next year with a better pass rush he will look even better.

No way.

Asomoghua is great. People don't throw at him though, which i suppose shows have good he is and he isn't doing much this year, again because of his name/ability.

Revis is also a very good CB.

Bodden and Bailey are average. Bailey has been ripped apart at least once this year and outside of the Jets with 3 INT's, Bodden looks entirely average.

Woodson on the other hand has been phenomenal. 2 sacks, 7 INT's, 2 TD's, 54 tackles, 4 Fumbles Forced (1 recovered).

Woodson has been the best defensive player. Clearly he is the best CB (and arguably player) in the league this year by some distance.

Merriweather is good, i like him. I also think Aaron Ross is a very good CB.

: Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:47 am  

Most of these other players mentioned come from winning teams. For example Wayne and Manning will get more credit because they are on a team thats posted 11+ wins a season and made the playoffs over the last decade. In my opinion GB get more than their fair share of coverage and have only themselves to blame, with their poor season last year, for not having their players get the credit they apparently deserve.

: Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:52 am  

Merriweather isnt a CB hes a FS/SS but he is turning into an excellent player, I cant wait to see our D with a few more seasons under their belts the majority of them are young now and have a lot to live upto, although they have already shown a lot of potential I think that they can only improve as a unit as long as they are kept together. I just worry that we wont re-sign Vince Wilfork because he is very underatted IMO and will be hard to replace.

: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:24 am  

El Pac Carnegie wrote:

Most of these other players mentioned come from winning teams. For example Wayne and Manning will get more credit because they are on a team thats posted 11+ wins a season and made the playoffs over the last decade. In my opinion GB get more than their fair share of coverage and have only themselves to blame, with their poor season last year, for not having their players get the credit they apparently deserve.

Coverage isn't the same as reognition though really. We do get our fair shair of coverage.


Is Rodgers performing to Manning, Breesus, Brady and Favre levels? Yes.
Do we have a winning record? Yes
Are we in the play-offs if it started today? Yes


Why then other than the fact he plays for Green Bay isn't he considered elite by people on here and people in the media? Not a loaded question i'm actually interested to know. I appreciate we have a worse record than those guys but surely the difference between elite and not elite isn't 3 games won?

Outside of Tampa (horrible game) we have been beaten by division leaders.
How would your opinion change if we get to 12-4? win a play-off game? win the superbowl?

Again, i'm not just trying to say all of our players are world class or that we are an awesome team, we aren't. I'd say outside of the Tampa defeat we are exactly where we should be (and before the season i predicted 10-6)...in with a shot of the play-offs.

: Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:56 am  

ST_CONROY wrote:

I think they will take us close but i'm hopefull we can get a win.

I know i always bring Rodgers up, but he is performing at a level equal to Breesus, Brady, Favre and Manning with the worst line in the NFL. Why doesn't he get mentioned in the same breath as them when since he has started (both this year and last) he has played to the same level. If they are MVP candidates why isn't he? I'm absolutely convinced he is the 5th best QB (at least) in the NFL.

Aaron Kampman. Right up there for the last few years with Merriman and Ware in sacks. Again why doesn't he ever get mentioned when they are? Admittedly it is different now we are a 3-4.

Greg Jennings. Excellent reciever. Doesn't get much credit around the league.

Charles Woodson. The best defensive player in the league this year. Yet when people talk about the best defensive players it is Jared Allen, Troy Polamalu, Bob Sanders. I'd bet people wouldn't even rate Woodson in the top 3 corners in the NFL.

I'm not suggesting we are the best team in the NFL or that we have the best players, but our great players do not get enough recognition either from the media or other fans. Both just assume we are a small market team and don't consider any of our players worthy for the big accolades.

I think you talk alot of sense r.e Rodgers ability but the best QBs and the one's you've mentioned all have winning records as QBs. I'd put Rivers, Big Ben and Warner above Rodgers at the moment for the same reason...showing that they can WIN. I agree r.e Woodson, but you need to get rid of this "the packers dont get credit" lark. They are one of the most popular teams in the NFL. I remember a certain poster on here giving the Giants ZERO respect in 2007 and saying "the giants pass rush isnt that great"(despite having the most sacks in the NFL) and we all know what happened there. If the Packers are good enough then they will get where they need to be. They may be darkhorses come playoff time, going under the radar may be a blessing in disguise. In 2007 we took on 3 division winners on the road and stomped out perfection in the Superbowl...Thats how you get respect, credit and accolades.

: Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:17 am  

Mark wrote:

I think you talk alot of sense r.e Rodgers ability but the best QBs and the one's you've mentioned all have winning records as QBs. I'd put Rivers, Big Ben and Warner above Rodgers at the moment for the same reason...showing that they can WIN.

I accept that. However they all have better supporting casts than Rodgers does. Particularly O-Line. He has been sacked the most, has to run around like a headless chicken and has an average RB and TE. Surely it counts in his favour that he is matching them?

Plus i don't see how you could place Warner in particular above Rodgers. Especially not on this season.

Mark wrote:

but you need to get rid of this "the packers dont get credit" lark. They are one of the most popular teams in the NFL.

Maybe so. Change it to Rodgers then and i'm correct. Short of being a one man Superbowl machine and carrying everything on his shoulders how does he become elite? Seriously i don't know what else he can do. He has proved he can win us games. Rodgers doesn't get credit/respect and for what reason? If they are elite, he is elite.

I could argue that is also the case for Woodson. Equally to provide balance i think S, Jackson and MJD could be the same.

Mark wrote:

If the Packers are good enough then they will get where they need to be. They may be darkhorses come playoff time, going under the radar may be a blessing in disguise. In 2007 we took on 3 division winners on the road and stomped out perfection in the Superbowl...Thats how you get respect, credit and accolades.

I have no doubt if we make the play-offs we will be dark horses. I'd rather be favourites though (not that we should be).

Right now we'd play the Cardinals in the Wildcard. We play them last this year i think, but i'd be confident of a win.

Then we'd go to the Vikings. Sort out special teams and we could definately take them.

PACKERS FOR THE SUPERBOWL.

Anyway i'm not going to mention it anymore. I think Rodgers is elite. People here don't and IMO can't provide a reason why not. We'll see who is right when we win the superbowl.

Plus it just seems like i'm being a "homer" and saying all our players are world class when i'm not so i'll leave it there.

: Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:16 pm  

ST_CONROY wrote:

I accept that. However they all have better supporting casts than Rodgers does. Particularly O-Line. He has been sacked the most, has to run around like a headless chicken and has an average RB and TE. Surely it counts in his favour that he is matching them?

Plus i don't see how you could place Warner in particular above Rodgers. Especially not on this season.





Maybe so. Change it to Rodgers then and i'm correct. Short of being a one man Superbowl machine and carrying everything on his shoulders how does he become elite? Seriously i don't know what else he can do. He has proved he can win us games. Rodgers doesn't get credit/respect and for what reason? If they are elite, he is elite.

I could argue that is also the case for Woodson. Equally to provide balance i think S, Jackson and MJD could be the same.



I have no doubt if we make the play-offs we will be dark horses. I'd rather be favourites though (not that we should be).

Right now we'd play the Cardinals in the Wildcard. We play them last this year i think, but i'd be confident of a win.

Then we'd go to the Vikings. Sort out special teams and we could definately take them.

PACKERS FOR THE SUPERBOWL.

Anyway i'm not going to mention it anymore. I think Rodgers is elite. People here don't and IMO can't provide a reason why not. We'll see who is right when we win the superbowl.

Plus it just seems like i'm being a "homer" and saying all our players are world class when i'm not so i'll leave it there.

I think Warner has one of the best passer ratings in NFL history? Might be wrong though. Rodgers is very, very good. The reason I think people don't talk him up on here is because they dont need to as you do it all for him. People got giddy about Bulger & Culpepper a few years back and look at him now? It needs to be shown over a few years to be classed as Elite. As for the part in red...your e a saints fan its automatic that you think that.

: Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:28 pm  

Mark wrote:

As for the part in red...your a saints fan its automatic that you think that.

Not this year...i predict another trophy-less season for us.