: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:25 am  

- Neil - wrote:

Harsh he played well as a player in the 2005 ashes series. He hit 166 IIRC in the first innings at the Old Trafford test.

Good player, great captain and has a big future as a coach IMO.

He hit the first century of the 2005 Ashes series, but he'd been largely poor up until that point. When he took on the captaincy his average was hovering around 50, when he finished it was something like 41.44. I think that tells its own story.

I'm not saying he didn't play well as captain, but I don't think he was world class. Nothing wrong in that, very few players are. I just feel that his form prior to getting the top job, especially in Australia, was something that left him.

I'm not knocking the man, far from it, I just feel he didn't combine the 2 roles at the very, very top of his game.

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:13 pm  

The Nihilist wrote:

Didn't he score a 100 in both innings at OT?

No...166 in the first innings (then getting out to a daft shot to Katich) and then 14 in the second.

Still a bit of a shame for him to have to retire...how do Yorkshire fans feel that it would appear that he's only retiring because he can't get back in the England squad and doesn't want to scratch around at County level??

Im not saying that is the reason, just how it appears to some

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:21 pm  

OrdsallRed wrote:

No...166 in the first innings (then getting out to a daft shot to Katich) and then 14 in the second.

Still a bit of a shame for him to have to retire...how do Yorkshire fans feel that it would appear that he's only retiring because he can't get back in the England squad and doesn't want to scratch around at County level??

Im not saying that is the reason, just how it appears to some

Difficult one. If his heart isn't in it and he's struggling with injury I see no reason for him to stick around. I'd much rather he goes now than spends years hanging around the dressing room turning into a bitter old man, constantly spouting off about the good old days.

On the flip side, his experience could prove invaluable to the next generation of young batters coming through.

On balance, I think it's for the best that he quits playing totally. If he gets into coaching that would be great, but I reckon he's set for the Sky box before too long.

Oh, and there's also the argument that county cricket should exist purely as a proving ground for the test arena. Having players no longer available for England selection further lessens the pool of talent, so as soon as he quits one he should quit the other.

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:20 pm  

i agree i dont think we would won the 05 ashes without Vaughan. I think he was the best captain we had for about 12 years as long as i wacthed the game. Look at our record under fletcher and vaughan did we lose a test?? he knew how to change the game on hes head with hes bowling changes. Now Struass is a diffrent kind of captain he wont have the impact changes lik Vaughan but he will lead from the front be constantly hitting runs. Overall Vaughan was a very good player all through hes carrer hes battign average suffred when he was captain but he brought the teammore sucess has captain so really cant callhes fall in average as he made up for that with hes captaincy

[Matt_Horton]

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:20 pm  

Has he got a media job yet?

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:13 pm  

Oldham Rhino wrote:

Has he got a media job yet?

Surely he has by now

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:09 pm  

oggy123 wrote:

i agree i dont think we would won the 05 ashes without Vaughan.

I'm not sure I agree with that one....To be honest, England had been building towards that Ashes series for a while, and Vaughan's captaincy was just a small, though important, part of that 2005 effort.... Vaughan, and England, were quite fortunate that they had managed to get one of the best 4-man pace attacks seen in Test cricket, since the Windies glory days, both assembled and fully fit for that series....Vaughan certainly utilised them well, but to say without him we wouldn't have won that series isn't quite correct.

Its no coincidence that since the demise of that attack, through form and injury, so England's form has dipped....It will be the main reason why England will fail to topple the Aussies this summer.

: Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:22 pm  

Yeah but has you said you have to use your weapons wisely ahnd Vaughan did that. Look at it how he kept bringing simon jones into the attack when Damien Martyn came into bat. Vaughan was probably the best captain i seen play the game ( Not been wacthing it as long as others granted) Strauss is a very good captain but i would say if we had him in charge we wouldnt have won hes gameplan is a bit to predictable and sensible. Vaughan used to takew the game by the scruff of the neck and turn it on hes head he was a awesome player i just wish he was fit and in form we would certainly welcome him if he was. As for Austrilia winning i dont think sop mate i think our attack is a lot better than theirs

Flintoff
Anderson
Broad
Swann
Panesar/Rashid

Lee( out of form and struggling for fitness)
Johnson ( Not very consitent but a wicket keeper the only bowler who will worry us)
Clark- Mr nice and steady not a big wicket taker but very wicket to wicket hard to score off
Hauritz- Laughable not good enough for club cricket

: Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:25 am  

oggy123 wrote:

Lee( out of form and struggling for fitness)
Johnson ( Not very consitent but a wicket keeper the only bowler who will worry us)
Clark- Mr nice and steady not a big wicket taker but very wicket to wicket hard to score off
Hauritz- Laughable not good enough for club cricket

Brett Lee - faster than anyone we have at our disposal

Johnson - a wicket keeper??? not very consistent?? he's been amongst the best fast bowlers in the world for the past 18 months!!

Clark - well a certain Glenn McGrath was nice and steady...we didnt seem to master him very well did we???

Hauritz is this the same Hauritz who has a better Test and ODI average than Panesar?? He's no Shane Warne (thankfully) but he's a decent player.

And you've forgotten about Peter Siddle who looks very aggressive and fast who will be a real handful over here.

The bowling is pretty even I'd say but the Aussie batting looks a bit stronger than ours...even so I'd expect it to be a very clsoe series.

: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:37 am  

can you read?? i said Johnson was a Wicket taker and were did i say he isnt fast?? He is fast but strugglws too find hes line and length when he does hes the best in the world (WHEN HE DOES) Haurtiz is a shocker mate thats simpl he didnt take a wicket in the series with SA. Your comparing Magrath with Clarke? Dont be silly mate. Brett lee has lost it all together now quick but i wouldt worry about him at all. And im not even sure about ther e batting yeah they will have Ponting, M Clarke and Katich but most of the others are young andf dunproven over here. Hughes (County level and international are a massive step up) Haddin (Never seems ttoo change hes game hes too aggressive, i will gaurentee Flintoff cleans him up everytime)