Re: The Football Chat (cont) : Wed May 30, 2012 9:49 pm  

My views on our managerial appointment are mixed. I'm actually pleased that we're implementing a better 'structure' at the club. Our club has lacked strategy for decades, we looked like we were finally getting things in place with Benitez, but things went wrong and we ended up going about five years back on ourselves. Rodgers' appointment is pretty much irrelevant if the club doesn't appoint the right people around him (van Gaal, is it?) and if they don't work well with him. Whilst I am happy we're putting in this new 'system', for me it's not something you can put in and make work instantly. I guess they have to make a start of it somewhere, so they've brought it all in at once, which is good, but I really thought the 'directors' would have been brought in first, simply to be involved in the interviewing process.

Re: The Football Chat (cont) : Wed May 30, 2012 10:36 pm  

Webbo wrote:

This will be the Liverpool owners throwing in the towel on ever challenging for the title, then.

For Liverpool to be back at the top with the [new] elite of English football, they need to invest at least about £150m in the team. A proven, top quality coach (like a Mourinho, Guardiola or Hiddink) would demand that kind of transfer kitty. Rodgers won't. And, what's more, Rodgers isn't a big enough name in global footballing circles to attract the caliber of player Liverpool would need anyway. He's more used to rummaging through the Poundland shops for bargains than going to Harvey Nics to know you're buying the real deal.

Appointing a hungry, young, talented coach and making a moderate investment in players might work in the rarified world of US sports, but it's a path to mid-table mediocrity in top flight English football.

The best Liverpool can hope for is that Rodgers pulls some rabbits out of the transfer hat, gets the limited players he has playing effective football, and maybe sneak the 4th Champions League place.

And as a Liverpool fan I'm gutted.

Let's be honest, you're living a pipe dream if you think Liverpool would compete with £150m, and you're living a pipe dream if you think our owners can invest that kind of money. They have said all along, they want to be able to compete by being clever, 'ahead of the pack' and self-sufficient. The model to follow is Arsenal, they easily have the best scouting system in the country, whilst they definitely don't have the biggest backers. They may not be winning the league, but they are always up there and the guarantee of CL money for them has meant they've been able to build a new stadium on the back of it.

Without an Arab, we will never be able to compete with Citeh and co. through sheer investment; we have to be clever about it. Instead of spending £20m-£30m on established players, we have to get them before they are established. Instead of spending £23m on Luis Suarez from Ajax, we should be spending <£1m on Suarez from Nacional, or <£10m on Suarez from Groningen. It's far easier said than done, but the owners clearly think if they have dedicated people to each 'role', it will maximise the performance of the club in those areas. Our failures of recent decades have clearly shown that allowing one man to run all footballing operations hasn't worked; to put the future of the of the club in the balance of one man clearly hasn't worked with us. Whether you agree with the structure or not, you have to agree that it makes far more sense for the owners to be investing in multiple men, rather than just one man and hoping for the best.

I'm mixed on Rodgers, I know little of his management style or philosophies (I'm sure we'll read he's the next Mourinho all week like we did when he went to Watford), but he done well with Swansea this year and he's obviously interviewed well with the ownership. I too would have wanted somebody with more 'pedigree', but how many people in that class would be willing to fit into our structure? Why would Jurgen Klopp leave a title-winning Dortmund that look like they're on the verge to a good few years in the CL? A club with players like Reus and Gotze about to enjoy their best years?

I don't think we should take the negative approach to Rodgers -- we really don't know how things will pan out. We're taking a complete fresh start this summer: new manager, new structure, new philosophies and new direction. To demand titles and multiple-year progress immediately is deluded. We should give them time, let them do things their way and judge by the results over a few years. If we don't improve, if we end up having repeated summers like the last one, then the owners won't last very long and they'll be offloading the club before long. But they don't want to do that, they want to win, they want to improve and they've gone with a method they think will work. It's nothing to do with baseball or NFL, it's to do with Liverpool and getting our club back on track.

Re: The Football Chat (cont) : Wed May 30, 2012 10:42 pm  

All Rogers did at Swansea was carry on the work that Bobby did.

Re: The Football Chat (cont) : Wed May 30, 2012 11:04 pm  

Conroy wrote:

All Rogers did at Swansea was carry on the work that Bobby did.

Probably did. But there's one thing carrying it on in the Championship, it's a different story doing it in the Premier League, which is what he done. Whilst I don't remember Martinez signing Sigurdsson - arguably one of the signings of the season. I'm not blowing his trumpet, by the way, I've already admitted I know little of his management style or philosophy. I am simply disputing your claim, which was probably made as a light-hearted attempted at a bit of sarcasm

Re: The Football Chat (cont) : Wed May 30, 2012 11:12 pm  

Roddy B wrote:

Probably did. But there's one thing carrying it on in the Championship, it's a different story doing it in the Premier League, which is what he done. Whilst I don't remember Martinez signing Sigurdsson - arguably one of the signings of the season. I'm not blowing his trumpet, by the way, I've already admitted I know little of his management style or philosophy. I am simply disputing your claim, which was probably made as a light-hearted attempted at a bit of sarcasm

Siggurdsson was on loan.

Yes he has signed a few of his own players, but he has kept all of the structures and game plans in place that Martinez implemented. From what I can see anyway.

Plenty of teams have come up and done that in their first season. Reading, Ipswich, Sunderland, Blackpool and Burnley did it to an extent.

Re: The Football Chat (cont) : Wed May 30, 2012 11:23 pm  

Conroy wrote:

Siggurdsson was on loan.

Yes he has signed a few of his own players, but he has kept all of the structures and game plans in place that Martinez implemented. From what I can see anyway.

Plenty of teams have come up and done that in their first season. Reading, Ipswich, Sunderland, Blackpool and Burnley did it to an extent.

I guess loan signings don't count. I guess when Fergie signed Tevez on loan for two seasons, he was just dismissed as a good signing because he was on loan? Dear Lord, talk about moving the goalposts.

I was reading an article about Rodgers a few hours ago that had this in there:

Rodgers has often described his joy at being able to get his hands dirty at Swansea. Although a tracksuit manager who says his natural environment is on the coaching field, his influence at the Liberty is everywhere from transfers to new training grounds.

Would he be able to operate in such a way with a sporting director hovering above him?

Whilst I'm unsure if Chris Wathan of Wales Online is the best judge of Rodgers' managerial ability, I imagine he knows more about the goings on at the club than you.

I guess the past of other teams means you should just dismiss Rodgers out of hand? I guess Rodgers getting them promoted, then comfortably keeping them up isn't an achievement because 'some others do it', even though it is still a very difficult thing to do. Rodgers came up and finished above Martinez's Wigan. I know little of what they have done at either of their respective clubs, but to try and dismiss a man's achievements and instead move them on to a manager who hasn't been there for three years. Well, I can only smile.

Re: The Football Chat (cont) : Thu May 31, 2012 12:28 am  

Roddy B wrote:

I guess loan signings don't count. I guess when Fergie signed Tevez on loan for two seasons, he was just dismissed as a good signing because he was on loan? Dear Lord, talk about moving the goalposts.

I was reading an article about Rodgers a few hours ago that had this in there:

Whilst I'm unsure if Chris Wathan of Wales Online is the best judge of Rodgers' managerial ability, I imagine he knows more about the goings on at the club than you.

I guess the past of other teams means you should just dismiss Rodgers out of hand? I guess Rodgers getting them promoted, then comfortably keeping them up isn't an achievement because 'some others do it', even though it is still a very difficult thing to do. Rodgers came up and finished above Martinez's Wigan. I know little of what they have done at either of their respective clubs, but to try and dismiss a man's achievements and instead move them on to a manager who hasn't been there for three years. Well, I can only smile.

I'm not dismissing his achievements, I'm just not painting him as the next Ferguson/Mourinho/Wenger/sliced bread etc etc which inevitably Liverpool fans will.

Like I said, from what I can see in the way we play and the way they play, not much has changed. Also, getting a player in on loan is one thing. Keeping him is another.

Re: The Football Chat (cont) : Thu May 31, 2012 12:43 am  

Conroy wrote:

I'm not dismissing his achievements, I'm just not painting him as the next Ferguson/Mourinho/Wenger/sliced bread etc etc which inevitably Liverpool fans will.

Like I said, from what I can see in the way we play and the way they play, not much has changed. Also, getting a player in on loan is one thing. Keeping him is another.

I think any Liverpool fan pointing him to be the next whoever is an idiot.

I wasn't praising Rodgers' ability to keep a player, I was praising his ability to spot a player who turned out to be one of the best signings that season. Keeping him will/would be harder because more teams will be interested now he's exposed as a good player in a strong league, but that doesn't mean you can't turn around and praise him for getting him in.

I obviously want us to improve, but I desperately want the new structure to work, just because I feel we're desperate for a bit of consistency. The last thing I want to be reading is unrest at the club due to 'somebody else signing players' or whatever. The club need to focus on knuckling down and focusing on making the right decisions, hopefully the role Rodgers will be in has been explained with true transparency.

Re: The Football Chat (cont) : Thu May 31, 2012 5:43 am  

Has Rodgers been sacked yet?


Rodgers out.

Re: The Football Chat (cont) : Thu May 31, 2012 8:52 am  

Wouldn't mind Sigurdsson at LFC. We could do with a box to box playmaker to sit infront of Lucas. He would also contribute with goals from midfield which we have lacked of late. Very good player.

Saddened, how do you know that Martinez was there number one choice? They approached him yes, but at the same time they approached Rodgers to, who turned the approach down.

One thing is for sure though, for the first time the owners have got their man, he is their choice so therefore I believe he will be given time and cash. He has impressed me with his signings at Swansea with the small funds he had at his disposal. Graham, Sinclair and Sigurdsson.have all proved great captures, interesting to see what he can do with more cash and at a massive club.