Re: Boxing Round 2 : Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:26 pm  

Money Mayweather wrote:

Haye's performance considering he hadn't sparred for a month, and was clearly a little bit out of shape was superb - I think he finished the fight with 40% punch success rate. His defense was poor at times, but I'm sure he'll be working very hard on that. I'd like to see him move his head more and keep his hands higher. Personnally I see no reason why he can't beat the K brothers. Vitalli is almost 40(?), and is getting slower with each fight, and Vlad has always had a glass jaw, and if Haye lands one of his bombs on him its all over.

haye has a glass jaw too though in my opinion, keeping that hand held down low all the time may be his downfall

Re: Boxing Round 2 : Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:37 pm  

brearley84 wrote:

haye has a glass jaw too though in my opinion, keeping that hand held down low all the time may be his downfall

He doesn't have a glass jaw at all. Yes he's been down a few times in his career, and he's always got up and won. Stamina is a bigger issue for him IMO.

Re: Boxing Round 2 : Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:26 pm  

Haye's jaw is always going to be a worry; he still hasn't taken a solid punch at heavy weight.

That said, it's more important to avoid the big hits in this division than to be able to take them; very few heavy weights can take a clean hit on the chin and shrug it off; Ruiz made a good effort on Saturday, and obviously Vitali has a jaw chizzled from rock seemingly.

Haye probably moves better than most heavyweights, and is certainly one of the most athletic. With practice, if he learns to move his head a little more and keep his bloody hands up, strangely, I think his questionable jaw will be less exposed at heavyweight than cruiserweight, given the lack of speed in the heavier division.

Although he's been sat down a fair few times at cruiserweight, if he struggled to make the weight at all (I think most would acknowledge he's a natural heavyweight) and had to drastically reduce his intake in the few days prior to the fight that will have messed up his punch resistence no end.


As for the task ahead of him, I think it's achieveable. I just hope he doesn't have to fanny on with another fight against Valuev; no one wants to see that lump fight, and I certainly don't want a rematch with Valuev to eat into Haye's time left at the top.

Out of the two Klitschko brothers, I don't know who I'd rather he faced. Wlad would be more diffuclt to hit, but easier to put down, and Vitali probably packs a bigger punch but his jab isn't as effective. Either fight would be a great encounter.

Re: Boxing Round 2 : Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:57 am  

David Haye can be a good champion in this division because the division as a whole is so desperately poor. His chin, punch, power and stamina should not be good enough for the heavy weight division but the fighters he is likely to face are poor heavyweights and therefore he will survive.

Re: Boxing Round 2 : Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:58 am  

Matt23 wrote:

Fair points Muggy, noticed that Groves' guard was open for quite alot of his fight as well. Seeing alot more low guards up at the top level these days in actual fact, Froch being the worst culprit of all of course.

How far does everyone think Groves can go? Surely the dream fight is a grudge match with DeGale? Not sure DeGale really fancies it at this moment in time though, he's rather fight a few more tomato cans. Groves ma not in fact be as talented as DeGale, but he's already gained far more valuable experience in the pro ring than DeGale has IMO.

Groves is the real deal. He has a cracking amateur pedigree and was very unlucky not to go to the Olympics. I don't agree he's not as talented at DeGale. Perhaps he's not quite as slick (only just), but he's got more power, has a better jab (the best I've seen from a British boxer in years) and there is no comparison with respect to body punching. I can't say I'm all that happy with his low hands, but that's his style. He tends to ride a punch and when he has been hit he's looked steady. Froch invited him to training camp prior to the Taylor fight and the word is he gave him a handful of trouble.

I am slightly worried about his hands. They haven't caused him trouble so far - but anyone who hits that hard runs the risk of breakages. I am really excited about this kid. And I'm not trying to do DeGale down here. He's coming along nicely and I think he's genuine title material also. I just wish he wasn't with phucking Warren.

Mark my words, we are on the verge of the greatest era of British boxing in thirty years. Forget old warhorses like Ricky Hatton and Calzaghe. There are super-talented kids coming through by the bucketload.

As for the other stuff - Wlad's chin isn't Ali's - but it aint glass, either. Anyone who thinks he'll keel over the first punch Haye puts on him is going to be disappointed. Yes, Corrie Sanders dropped him. But Sanders could always bang, even if he couldn't do much else.

Re: Boxing Round 2 : Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:39 pm  

Money Mayweather wrote:

He doesn't have a glass jaw at all. Yes he's been down a few times in his career, and he's always got up and won. Stamina is a bigger issue for him IMO.

yes he does...

always got up and won?? like against carl thompson...

ok haye has improved lots since then but you cant improve a glass jaw.. ask amir 'dodge big punchers' khan

Re: Boxing Round 2 : Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:55 pm  

brearley84 wrote:

yes he does...

When will you people learn? The test of a fighter's chin is not in him getting knocked down, it's whether he gets BACK UP. Joe Calzaghe, JM Marquez & Chris Eubank were all dropped on a number of occasions throughout their careers. Did/do they have glass chins also?

always got up and won?? like against carl thompson...

Have you even watched the Carl Thompson fight? Let's recap - Haye took on a very experienced and highly underrated three-times Cruiserweight world champion in his ELEVENTH pro fight, battered him around the ring for four rounds (coming within an inch of beating Tommo) and then gassed resulting in his corner throwing in the towel. Inexperience - not a glass jaw - cost him that fight.

ok haye has improved lots since then but you cant improve a glass jaw.. ask amir 'dodge big punchers' khan

If Haye had a glass jaw Ruiz would have starched him. He's put down bigger men plenty of times and he certainly caught Haye with enough leather to test his beard. The truth is it is exceptionally rare for a fighter with a so-called "glass jaw" to get to world title level. The competition is just too tough.

Khan's jaw isn't that bad. His problems in the past have been more the result of poor coaching and over-exuberance. Prior to his involvement with Roach he rushed stupidly in like a madman trying to prove he is the big star and got tagged (often off-balance). The kid had practically no guard! It was the same story against Prescott (who he should NEVER have been in with). As soon as the bell went he tore into his opponent (a known heavy hitter) and then walked onto a punch. And it's not like he was hit by a pillow. As stated, Prescott can really bang (it's the only thing he can do) and that punch delivered through a guard as open as Amir's would have easily dropped a Middleweight.

Re: Boxing Round 2 : Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:03 pm  

Anyone else really looking forward to paying £5.95 to watch Holyfield v Botha?

No, why not?

Re: Boxing Round 2 : Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:28 pm  

Mugwump wrote:

When will you people learn? The test of a fighter's chin is not in him getting knocked down, it's whether he gets BACK UP. Joe Calzaghe, JM Marquez & Chris Eubank were all dropped on a number of occasions throughout their careers. Did/do they have glass chins also?

Have you even watched the Carl Thompson fight? Let's recap - Haye took on a very experienced and highly underrated three-times Cruiserweight world champion in his ELEVENTH pro fight, battered him around the ring for four rounds (coming within an inch of beating Tommo) and then gassed resulting in his corner throwing in the towel. Inexperience - not a glass jaw - cost him that fight.

If Haye had a glass jaw Ruiz would have starched him. He's put down bigger men plenty of times and he certainly caught Haye with enough leather to test his beard. The truth is it is exceptionally rare for a fighter with a so-called "glass jaw" to get to world title level. The competition is just too tough.

Khan's jaw isn't that bad. His problems in the past have been more the result of poor coaching and over-exuberance. Prior to his involvement with Roach he rushed stupidly in like a madman trying to prove he is the big star and got tagged (often off-balance). The kid had practically no guard! It was the same story against Prescott (who he should NEVER have been in with). As soon as the bell went he tore into his opponent (a known heavy hitter) and then walked onto a punch. And it's not like he was hit by a pillow. As stated, Prescott can really bang (it's the only thing he can do) and that punch delivered through a guard as open as Amir's would have easily dropped a Middleweight.

yes they can get back up but keep going down and lose just like ruiz did.

the boxers you mentioned got put down by quality fighters, has haye fought a real quality fighter yet??

ruiz over the hill, valuev ? we will see if he can take a real heavyweight punch from the ukranian brothers, i hope he can but still say he has a glass jaw... he got put down by monte barrett, mormeck, thompson (who was about 50!)... these werent heavyweights! and he also got knocked out in the amateurs (check youtube lol) thats enough evidence for me to show he can be beaten with a real punch.

dont get me started on khan!! this guy is manufactured !

now they go put him in with mallignaggi who is a total non puncher AGAIN.. khan has dodged maidana why?? because hes a puncher

mitchell did the job on prescott

khan will get credit from me when he fights prescott, mitchell,maidana or a puncher instead or hand picking fights... he also dodged devon alexander

at least mitchell doesnt dodge fighters, look who hes got next ...katsidis

Re: Boxing Round 2 : Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:37 pm  

I cannot believe my ears. Did I really just hear Ordinary Harrison call out David Haye and then the Klitchko brothers?? Is he mental??

He's not even going to beat Michael Sprott, god knows why he's getting ahead of himself and wanting to challenge for the heavyweight crown.