: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:21 pm  

GT wrote:

It's plainly clear that Starbug is one of those people who ignores the actual Taylor report and the cold hard facts of the day when they're put in front of him. It's just oh so easy to believe the myths of thousands of scousers charging into the ground, isn't it?

Even when there was cctv video showing fans walking into the ground just before kickoff, some people see what they want to see another good post GT.

: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:21 pm  

Tom Brady wrote: Not at all, I was asking as you knew so much about Hillsborough thought you might know alot about that as well with it being very significant in your clubs history. Hillsborough http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/lfctvt/?cid=3 ... emorial%2F Heysel http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/lfctvt/?cid=3 ... Fheysel%2F

Tom Brady wrote: Not at all, I was asking as you knew so much about Hillsborough thought you might know alot about that as well with it being very significant in your clubs history. Hillsborough http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/lfctvt/?cid=3 ... emorial%2F Heysel http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/lfctvt/?cid=3 ... Fheysel%2F

: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:31 pm  

espanyolswan wrote:

I remember watching it on TV and it was a day of shame for UEFA, Liverpool and Juventus and the fact the game went ahead after the tragedy was the biggest disgrace of all.

There was an interview with Brian Laws, who played for Forest that day. He said that Clough had them relaxed and they were informed there was a bit of a delay by the Police Commissioner, he came back and said he thought someone had died. He propmptly told him; that's it, we aren't playing football when somebody has died, it is only a game of football, we are going home.

: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:32 pm  

was a brilliant service

i dont cry much but the crowd singing youll never walk alone really got me today

: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:53 pm  

I have put alot of links on this thread in the hope people will read them learn the truth about Hillsborough and remember those who lost there lives the media coverage has been great seeing John Snow grilling MP Andy Burnham was great we will carry on the fight for justice. One last link which really brings it home thanks to all the supporters of other clubs for there posts which have been spot on. 96 ordinary men women and children. JUSTICE http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/media/Freeclip_montageforthe96_high.asx

I have put alot of links on this thread in the hope people will read them learn the truth about Hillsborough and remember those who lost there lives the media coverage has been great seeing John Snow grilling MP Andy Burnham was great we will carry on the fight for justice. One last link which really brings it home thanks to all the supporters of other clubs for there posts which have been spot on. 96 ordinary men women and children. JUSTICE http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/media/Freeclip_montageforthe96_high.asx

: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:43 pm  

can't remember the last time a cried twice in a day...


walk on at the memorial today set me off and watching the history channel now and listening to mr hicks story is absolutely tragic








though now is not the time nor the place i gotta say i don't agree with mr hicks assement of 'german safe standing area' as bunkem, though obviously i understand his stance 1000%...but hundreds of thousands of fan still,today,stand on terraces for football,league,union games in this country...

as i said earlier in this thread standing & terraces don't kill people...poor policing,poor stewarding and poor crowd managment kills people..



RIPthe96

: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:47 pm  

GT wrote:

It's plainly clear that Starbug is one of those people who ignores the actual Taylor report and the cold hard facts of the day when they're put in front of him. It's just oh so easy to believe the myths of thousands of scousers charging into the ground, isn't it?

Nothing more than my own experiences from that time and attending similar high profile matches

The last bit I dont understand , are you saying there was not thousands of Liverpool charging into the ground when the gate was opened ?

It was a series of circumstances that could have happened at many other matches from that time

: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:55 pm  

Starbug wrote:

The last bit I dont understand , are you saying there was not thousands of Liverpool charging into the ground when the gate was opened ?

Correct. Police eye-witness reports state that no one pushed their way in, everyone entered the ground in as orderly a manner as possible.

It was a series of circumstances that could have happened at many other matches from that time

But it was more likely to happen at Hillsborough than anywhere else. Ask anyone who'd been on that terrace themselves before that fateful day. Even stories from United fans who'd stood on there two months previously leave me cold and there was no fatalities that day.

: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:58 pm  

GT wrote:

Actually, it was the neglect of clubs like Sheffield Wednesday in not keeping the terraces safe. Crash barriers were either missing or so dilapidated they buckled and collapsed under the pressure. If the ground had been properly maintained and the police hadn't just herded everyone into the centre pen rather than ensuring people got to the others as well, then the disaster could well have been averted. The authorities should've known something was likely to happen, ask any United fan who was stood on that Leppings Lane terrace just a few months previously what they thought of the state of the place. Unfortunately the authorities didn't think football fans were deserving of human rights and allowed places like Hillsborough to get into such a sorry, unsafe state.

It could've happened to anyone, which is something that a lot of people today should remember.

I can understand the sentiment of the post, but there are a number of points that need to be considered with regards to Hillborough and in particular the Lepings Lane end of the ground.

Sadly, the events of Hillsborough were rather overtaken by the clamour for seating at grounds and the rush to turn places in to all-seater stadia in an attemp to keep violence at games at bay (Although Millwall destroyed that little idea, with their antics at Luton, one of the only all seater stadia in the country at the time)

The Leapings Lane end of the ground had an inherant design fault. There was a crush when it was the Spurs end at their Semi in 81 .... There was another crush when it was the Leeds end against Coventry in '87 and we could just as easily be commemorating those as a tragedy. The point is that Hillsborough was a forseeable event waiting to happen when a chain of easily occuring circumstances came together.

The central problem with the ground was the tunnel to take the fans from the turnstile area to the terraces and the four lower pens behind the goal. When the police opened the gates to ticketless fans, there was only one place they could forseeably go and that was towards that one tunnel. Also, unlike many grounds the tunnel led to the highest part of the terracing and thus, it is likley many people would have been nearer the top of the pens to being with, as they would have given the best view. Compare Leapings Lane with say, the South Stand at Headingley ... The SS has four main points of entry and the two tunnels are at pitch level, meaning you generally have to vacate the area of the entrance to move back and get a better view.

In my personal opinion, it is 'safe' to stand at games on the whole, however these need to be properly monitored and policed ... Something that was lacking at Hillsborough.

The football authorities knew of the problems at Hillsborough (there's a bloke commenting in The Times today, as a Spurs fan writing in to complain about being crushed there in '81) and they must hold a certain proportion of the blame of those that died for once again going back to a venue that they knew to have a significant crush risk attached to it.

Perhaps the first thing that football should have done in the aftermath is bulldozed the Leapings Lane end and made sure that design could never kill again. You don't ground every plane just because one particular type had a design flaw.

: Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:02 pm  

roughyedspud wrote:

c
as i said earlier in this thread standing & terraces don't kill people...poor policing,poor stewarding and poor crowd managment kills people..



RIPthe96

as do football hooligans! (Heysel)