Re: More football chat : Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:39 pm  

Codarmysaint wrote:

Having a debate on another forum with a load of Man United fans who cant or wont admit, that Messi is a better player than Rooney. The best they can come up with is that Rooney is the better player because hes better defensively. Attacking wise there is nothing between the two apparantly and Rooney can do everything Messi can. :S

Most United fans will say 'I wouldn't swap Rooney for another player in the world' which is fair enough, it's to be expected, he's their star, the fan favourite and he's English. But, I'm sure if they just watched things without their tinted specs, they'd have no reservations about admitting the gap between Rooney and Messi is huge.

Rooney's in the form of his life right now, but he'll never be in the bracket of a player like Messi.

Re: More football chat : Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:06 pm  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

Most United fans will say 'I wouldn't swap Rooney for another player in the world' which is fair enough, it's to be expected, he's their star, the fan favourite and he's English. But, I'm sure if they just watched things without their tinted specs, they'd have no reservations about admitting the gap between Rooney and Messi is huge.

Rooney's in the form of his life right now, but he'll never be in the bracket of a player like Messi.

Maybe it's also hard for most Liverpool fans to admit that an ex Everton and current Man United player is maybe as least in the same league as Messi,to claim the gap between Messi and Rooney is huge is just plain wrong,lets wait a few months to see what both players do on the biggest stage in the world.

Re: More football chat : Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:12 pm  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

Most United fans will say 'I wouldn't swap Rooney for another player in the world' which is fair enough, it's to be expected, he's their star, the fan favourite and he's English. But, I'm sure if they just watched things without their tinted specs, they'd have no reservations about admitting the gap between Rooney and Messi is huge.

Just because we wouldn't swap Rooney for anyone else doesn't mean we can't see the quality of other players. When Ronaldo was here, he was by far the greatest player in the world, but still everyone at United would've preferred to lose Ronaldo than Rooney, because Rooney brings more to the team than fancy dan stuff in the final third.

And TBF, we're hardly bothered whether he's English or not are we? Cantona is the king of Old Trafford, and Rooney will need to do a bit more to get close to Cantona's legendary status.

Messi is a class player, but if Barca fail to win the league / European Cup, he won't win the POTY this year, especially if United win the league / EC. The gap between Rooney/Ronaldo/Messi and the rest is huge, there's nobody else near them ATM, but the award for the best player will go to the player that has the most success this year.

Re: More football chat : Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:15 pm  

Codarmysaint wrote:

Having a debate on another forum with a load of Man United fans who cant or wont admit, that Messi is a better player than Rooney. The best they can come up with is that Rooney is the better player because hes better defensively. Attacking wise there is nothing between the two apparantly and Rooney can do everything Messi can. :S

Attacking wise there is nothing between Rooney and Messi. Except Rooney is better in the air. Messi is better at running at players.

Along with Ronaldo they are by far the best players in the world. If Ronaldo was still in a decent team ( ) he'd be getting tugged over because he can do everything Messi/Rooney can.

No other player gets close to them three in terms of class ATM.

Re: More football chat : Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:35 pm  

Paddy Evra wrote:

Just because we wouldn't swap Rooney for anyone else doesn't mean we can't see the quality of other players. When Ronaldo was here, he was by far the greatest player in the world, but still everyone at United would've preferred to lose Ronaldo than Rooney, because Rooney brings more to the team than fancy dan stuff in the final third.

And TBF, we're hardly bothered whether he's English or not are we? Cantona is the king of Old Trafford, and Rooney will need to do a bit more to get close to Cantona's legendary status.

Messi is a class player, but if Barca fail to win the league / European Cup, he won't win the POTY this year, especially if United win the league / EC. The gap between Rooney/Ronaldo/Messi and the rest is huge, there's nobody else near them ATM, but the award for the best player will go to the player that has the most success this year.

Of course nationality has a bit of influence on how supporters see him. Just like with Becks, Rooney is England's star player, considering Old Trafford was effectively England's second home when Wembley was being built, the connection between England and your club is strong IMO, much stronger than the connection between England and our club anyway. It's hard to explain, but I don't think United fans would have took to Rooney so quickly had he been Nigerian or Mexican (just a random nation).

Rooney is a good player playing in the form of his life, but on pure ability, Messi is just so much better than anybody else. He can open a defence up with a pass, beat 5 men on an effortless sprint, he can score from inside and outside of the box, he can use both feet well and dribbles well with both feet, he links with players exceptionally and his anticipation is first class. Rooney is a top player, he's enjoyed a great season but he just isn't capable of the things Messi is capable of. It's what sets the likes of Zidane apart from other players in their generation, they have this other level of ability that sets them apart.

I think the biggest influence on the WPOTY award will obviously be the world cup, although I don't agree with that, we'll have a stronger indication as to who's the favourite after that.

Re: More football chat : Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:46 pm  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

Of course nationality has a bit of influence on how supporters see him. Just like with Becks, Rooney is England's star player, considering Old Trafford was effectively England's second home when Wembley was being built, the connection between England and your club is strong IMO, much stronger than the connection between England and our club anyway. It's hard to explain, but I don't think United fans would have took to Rooney so quickly had he been Nigerian or Mexican (just a random nation).

We took to Dong very well. Anyway, I prefer Vidic and Evra to Rooney so nationality has feck all to do with it.

Robbie Rotten wrote:

Rooney is a good player playing in the form of his life, but on pure ability, Messi is just so much better than anybody else. He can open a defence up with a pass, beat 5 men on an effortless sprint, he can score from inside and outside of the box, he can use both feet well and dribbles well with both feet, he links with players exceptionally and his anticipation is first class. Rooney is a top player, he's enjoyed a great season but he just isn't capable of the things Messi is capable of. It's what sets the likes of Zidane apart from other players in their generation, they have this other level of ability that sets them apart.

Aye, which is what I said in my last post to codarmysaint. Messi is sublime with the ball at his feet, only Ronaldo is like him, with the ability to take players on. Rooney's passing has been pretty poor this season, which is why I believe we have yet to see the best of him. People with the ability to make a pass to eliminate the opposition and bring in more of your own team, like Scholes, Alonso, Xavi and Fabregas can do is a rarity, I believe them four have the ability better than Messi.

I agree that Messi is probably the best player in the world, because there are a couple of weaknesses in Rooney's game this season, such as his passing / long range shooting. But he's not as far away from Messi as some are making it sound.

Re: More football chat : Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:04 pm  

Paddy Evra wrote:

But he's not as far away from Messi as some are making it sound.

I don't mean it to knock on Rooney when I say it, I just think Messi has combined so many attributes, it's hard to see anyone near him. His turn of pace, agility yet strength and balance are freakish for a player of such height, the way he compliments his speed with the effortless dribbling, I could go on.

It's harsh on Rooney that he's playing in a time when someone like Messi is just hitting his peak, as any other player having a season like Rooney's would put his house on him winning the WPOTY award, he's done it in every competition and he's done well for England, but I just can't look past the little Argentine.

Re: More football chat : Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:28 pm  

Drogba can have the PL, Eto'o the CL, Ronaldo - La Liga. Rooney and Messi can then share the Ballon D'Or (or whatever 5hit it's called) and everyone can be happy.

For me it's always best to laud the players who actually win things. Winning things is the only thing IMO. Being the best player to win FA is really pathetic IMO. Total Football Holland shouldn't be championed because they were the best side not to win the World Cup, they should be ashamed that they didn't use their talent to achieve what should have been their objective.

Change the list a bit! Messi can have the WPOTY by himself. Rooney can have the World Cup!

Re: More football chat : Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:18 am  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: IMO there was a covering defender so Mascherano wasn't the last man. The rules/laws don't state anything about this mythical "last man" which people are so fond of quoting...it states that if a clear goalscoring opportunity is denied the attacking player then a red card should be issued. I think Valencia would have got a shot in (whether it would have been any good or not is another debate!!) so technically it should have been a red card...taken from the Laws of the Game...http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/RulesandRegulations/~/media/Files/PDF/Get%20into%20Football/Referees/lawsofthegameen_0910.ashx/lawsofthegameen_0910.pdf Sending-off Offences A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off if he commits any of the following seven offences: • denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote: IMO there was a covering defender so Mascherano wasn't the last man. The rules/laws don't state anything about this mythical "last man" which people are so fond of quoting...it states that if a clear goalscoring opportunity is denied the attacking player then a red card should be issued. I think Valencia would have got a shot in (whether it would have been any good or not is another debate!!) so technically it should have been a red card...taken from the Laws of the Game...http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/RulesandRegulations/~/media/Files/PDF/Get%20into%20Football/Referees/lawsofthegameen_0910.ashx/lawsofthegameen_0910.pdf Sending-off Offences A player, substitute or substituted player is sent off if he commits any of the following seven offences: • denying an obvious goal-scoring opportunity to an opponent moving towards the player’s goal by an offence punishable by a free kick or a penalty kick

Re: More football chat : Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:51 am  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

Rooney's in the form of his life right now, but he'll never be in the bracket of a player like Messi.

I'd agree with that at this moment in time. Lets see how good Rooney, Messi & Ronaldo are at the WC. I think if anyone of them won the thing they'd be entered into the all time greats list?

Pele
Maradonna
Zidane