Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:35 pm  

Let's hear what Kelvin Mackenzie has got to say for himself. Despicable b@stard.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:17 pm  

Shocking
Police taking blood from all the victims (including children) trying to fit them up as a drunken mob, If they were clear then going through police records trying to catch them with records to discredit them.
Police giving out 'info' to the press to further their aim to be whiter than white including changing officers statements (116 out of 164) to back this up and to put the blame squarely on the fans.
Sheff Weds not having a safety certificate and after having a similar situation 12 months previous them then doing NOTHING about it when they got the semi final again.
A fair few of those that died having a chance to be saved (41) but they were just given up as dead, The origional report failing to make this connecting and sticking to the 3.15 excuse.
The ambalance service changing statement to back this up.

Truly shameful.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:21 pm  

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:33 pm  

Anakin Skywalker wrote:

Shocking
Police taking blood from all the victims (including children) trying to fit them up as a drunken mob, If they were clear then going through police records trying to catch them with records to discredit them.
Police giving out 'info' to the press to further their aim to be whiter than white including changing officers statements (116 out of 164) to back this up and to put the blame squarely on the fans.
Sheff Weds not having a safety certificate and after having a similar situation 12 months previous them then doing NOTHING about it when they got the semi final again.
A fair few of those that died having a chance to be saved (41) but they were just given up as dead, The origional report failing to make this connecting and sticking to the 3.15 excuse.
The ambalance service changing statement to back this up.

Truly shameful.

Don't forget Irvine Patnick, the Tory MP who, together with the police, fed the story to the Sun. Later knighted.

If they can strip Fred Godwin of a knighthood, they can do it to this individual.

[John_D]

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:58 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Don't forget Irvine Patnick, the Tory MP who, together with the police, fed the story to the Sun. Later knighted.

Today was the first time I've seen that name and my initial reaction was that it has to be a made up name.
So pleased the work of the last 23 years - a frankly ludicrous length of time - has been vindicated and look forward (not the right phrase, but I hope you know what I'm driving at) to the next step towards justice.


Through all this, how has the perception of the football fan really changed? We're still herded, penned, corralled, threatened and basically not trusted to act like adults. You don't even have to be going to a game - I've been baton-charged after going shopping and herded towards a stadium just because I got off a commuter train in a town where a game was happening later. Presumably because I'm a male in my 30s who habitually wears jeans. Even as a member of the press I've had to put up with the same old nonsense I get as a regular fan.
Sure, the stadiums are generally nicer, but we're still treated like an amorphous, untrustworthy mass who are one twitch of an eyebrow away from criminality.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:01 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Don't forget Irvine Patnick, the Tory MP who, together with the police, fed the story to the Sun. Later knighted.

If they can strip Fred Godwin of a knighthood, they can do it to this individual.

True.

I just can't get my head around of how much went wrong.
Officers in charge outside not knowing about how crowded it was inside when they opened the exit gate, officers inside not knowing there was a real chance of crushing happening outside and what the hell they were to do when those same gates were opened.
Ambulances sat idle outside with vital equipment that could have saved some of the lives lost inside the ground.
The HUGE over allocation of tickets for that end.
The total shortage of turn-styles for a crowd that large directly causing the crush outside.
The fact that the crash barriers where no where near at the height they should have been, that the exit gates pitch side where far smaller than they should have been.
The fact that even with it clear that there was no way that everyone could have been in for 3PM (some would have been at least 40 mins late for the kick off with the lack of turn-styles) they still didn't want to delay kick off despite the evidence in front of their own eyes.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:12 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Don't forget Irvine Patnick, the Tory MP who, together with the police, fed the story to the Sun. Later knighted.

If they can strip Fred Godwin of a knighthood, they can do it to this individual.

On the word of Kelvin MacKenzie?

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:16 pm  

Strange day of being proud of the fight that never stopped but also sad and very angry at the loss of lives due to members of SYP and the cover up after, something many of us knew had gone on.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:20 pm  

Smiggs wrote:

Let's hear what Kelvin Mackenzie has got to say for himself. Despicable b@stard.

He should be brought in front of the families who lost loved ones and be made to apologise.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:55 pm  

John_D wrote:

Through all this, how has the perception of the football fan really changed? We're still herded, penned, corralled, threatened and basically not trusted to act like adults. You don't even have to be going to a game - I've been baton-charged after going shopping and herded towards a stadium just because I got off a commuter train in a town where a game was happening later. Presumably because I'm a male in my 30s who habitually wears jeans. Even as a member of the press I've had to put up with the same old nonsense I get as a regular fan.
Sure, the stadiums are generally nicer, but we're still treated like an amorphous, untrustworthy mass who are one twitch of an eyebrow away from criminality.

for all of that, it is a different game from the 70s and 80s and I can't help but think the reputation of football fans as a whole went before everyone at that game (and every game). I know most match going fans i know of that era think 'there but the grace of god', it could have been any club, it was a disaster waiting to happen.

I was playing cricket on that day, we had two brothers in the team usually but one went to the semi final, we were aware of the events as they started, but didn't know if Chris was ok or not until he got back home in the late evening. he had kept stopping at phone boxes and services all the way back but kept finding huge queues, so he'd set off again.

It was a long wait for his friends and family to know he was ok, that seems an eternity ago, so many people waiting until today to find out the truth about their loved ones. I work in a world where i know how the media works, but I don't know how McKenzie will dare show his face in public.