Re: More Football Chat : Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:39 pm  

ash4hullfc wrote:

He isn't, he's in charge of our game against the mackems. Lucky us.

thanks,at least we have a chance now !

Re: More Football Chat : Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:52 pm  

sanjunien wrote:

thanks,at least we have a chance now !

I hope it's Clattenberg

Re: More Football Chat : Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:35 pm  

RedTez wrote:

I hope it's Clattenberg

you mean Crappenburg - at least he's equally as bad for both teams, the football version of Ganson I suppose !

Re: More Football Chat : Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:47 pm  

Question for the Liverpool fans:

Dalglish turns it round between now and the end of the season, taking LFC to a top 6 finish. Then Rafa announces that he wants his old job back at Anfield. Who would you go for?

Re: More Football Chat : Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:50 pm  

Karlos13 wrote:

Question for the Liverpool fans:

Dalglish turns it round between now and the end of the season, taking LFC to a top 6 finish. Then Rafa announces that he wants his old job back at Anfield. Who would you go for?

Kenny for me.

Re: More Football Chat : Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:06 pm  

keithcun wrote:

That's what I love about this place, revisionism at it's best.

In '87/88, Dalglish bought Barnes, Beardsley, Houghton and Aldridge and turned them into one of the best attacking teams this country has seen. The season before ('86/'87)they finished 11 points behind Everton. Liverpool went on to win the League twice in 3 years only losing out in '88/'89 to Arsenal on goals scored.

Being fair though Keith, did he seriously create stars out of them? Barnes was more prolific a goalscorer at Watford than he was at Liverpool and Peter Beardsley was already a big name too. I think simply being Liverpool at the time was enough to bring these players in, they were signing for the biggest name in the country at the time.

I think Dalglish's record after he left Liverpool has to bring into question whether his success at Liverpool in the late eighties was a short term fluke. I'm not personally saying he never had anything, but he has not achieved anything since and Liverpool turning to him at this time is risky to say the least. It appears to be riding on the exact same level of nostalgia as when Newcastle brought in Keegan and look how that turned out. Painting someone as a messianic saviour is an unrealistic and unfair thing to do. You needed a current, professional manager right now to stop a sinking ship, not someone who will bring the players a temporary burst of motivation. Dalglish must be as temporary.

Hodgson didn't get the money to spend. He worked with players he ultimately didn't sign who wouldnt play for him. His tactics were often questionable, but if I were a Liverpool fan I would find it frustrating that the players would not even try to make the most of it and the squad appears to be very thin. All of a sudden certain players spring into life? Give me a break. They owe it to the fans to always give it their best.

Blackpool's dominance yesterday shows that Liverpools problems run deeper than a manager who didn't suit the club. They are honestly being outclassed and players like Poulsen are way off the pace of the premier league.

Re: More Football Chat : Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:38 pm  

Karlos13 wrote:

Question for the Liverpool fans:

Dalglish turns it round between now and the end of the season, taking LFC to a top 6 finish. Then Rafa announces that he wants his old job back at Anfield. Who would you go for?

Neither for me.

Re: More Football Chat : Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:50 pm  

Chris Dalton wrote:

I think Dalglish's record after he left Liverpool has to bring into question whether his success at Liverpool in the late eighties was a short term fluke. I'm not personally saying he never had anything, but he has not achieved anything since and Liverpool turning to him at this time is risky to say the least. It appears to be riding on the exact same level of nostalgia as when Newcastle brought in Keegan and look how that turned out. Painting someone as a messianic saviour is an unrealistic and unfair thing to do. You needed a current, professional manager right now to stop a sinking ship, not someone who will bring the players a temporary burst of motivation. Dalglish must be as temporary.

I agree with you in regard to some of the statements coming from fans about him, I didn't want him in myself, thinking he'd be out of date tactics wise. Him not persevering with the 442 that obviously wasn't working for Hodgson, bringing back a passing game and the appointment of Clarke has alleviated some of my fears.

but if I were a Liverpool fan I would find it frustrating that the players would not even try to make the most of it and the squad appears to be very thin. All of a sudden certain players spring into life? Give me a break. They owe it to the fans to always give it their best.

I take it you are talking about Torres here? IMO a lot of the problem with him under Hodgson was to do with the style of play. Torres is a goal scorer, he's not overly strong in the air, he doesn't have pace over 30 yards. He needs balls played into the channels and to his feet, but Hodgson had him playing as a target man or chasing long balls. He was being battered challenging for high balls and constantly losing foot races with defenders, is it any wonder that he looks happier now we are playing the ball on the floor more often?

Blackpool's dominance yesterday shows that Liverpools problems run deeper than a manager who didn't suit the club. They are honestly being outclassed and players like Poulsen are way off the pace of the premier league.

The midfield was poor, Poulsen and Lucas are too similar (and as you say Poulsen is well off the pace anyway), and I thought Merieles passing was terrible. My worry was that the bench did not have anyone on it that I thought would be able to provide a spark to change the game, as was proved by the final whistle.

Re: More Football Chat : Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:03 pm  

Chris Dalton wrote:

Being fair though Keith, did he seriously create stars out of them? Barnes was more prolific a goalscorer at Watford than he was at Liverpool and Peter Beardsley was already a big name too. I think simply being Liverpool at the time was enough to bring these players in, they were signing for the biggest name in the country at the time.

I think Dalglish's record after he left Liverpool has to bring into question whether his success at Liverpool in the late eighties was a short term fluke. I'm not personally saying he never had anything, but he has not achieved anything since and Liverpool turning to him at this time is risky to say the least. It appears to be riding on the exact same level of nostalgia as when Newcastle brought in Keegan and look how that turned out. Painting someone as a messianic saviour is an unrealistic and unfair thing to do. You needed a current, professional manager right now to stop a sinking ship, not someone who will bring the players a temporary burst of motivation. Dalglish must be as temporary.

Hodgson didn't get the money to spend. He worked with players he ultimately didn't sign who wouldnt play for him. His tactics were often questionable, but if I were a Liverpool fan I would find it frustrating that the players would not even try to make the most of it and the squad appears to be very thin. All of a sudden certain players spring into life? Give me a break. They owe it to the fans to always give it their best.

Blackpool's dominance yesterday shows that Liverpools problems run deeper than a manager who didn't suit the club. They are honestly being outclassed and players like Poulsen are way off the pace of the premier league.

The point I was making was that the uneducated scot was suggesting that Dalglish's success was on the back of inheriting the squad Fagan left him. In '85/'86, there's a case for that because he also had Paisley with him as well. But, he signed McMahon (his first in '85), Beardsley, Aldridge, Houghton and Barnes (all in the '87/88 season) and I think Spackman came in later in the '87/'88 season and he sculpted the players he had and the players he bought into a great team. Add to that Rush, one of the most prolific strikers in the world also left at the same time. So to suggest that his success was because of the team that Fagan left is complete bollox.

No one's doubting that Liverpool at the time had no problems bringing top players in and if I remember correctly, there was talk of Barnes leaving Watford for a couple of seasons and although he was linked with us, Man U and I think Arsenal, nobody seeemed to be prepared to take the gamble of signing him, which a lot at the time thought it would be, until Dalglish signed him. His stats say he was more prolific at Watford, but you have to remember he was at Liverpool for 10 years and the last 4 or 5 was spent in the depths of central midfield. In his first 4 seasons he scored 76 goals in 181 games.

The modern football fan makes these people into the messiahs though, one minute their booing, the next they are applauding.

The major problem was when they left Rafa go, you don't get rid of anyone unless you can get a replacement that is better, which they clearly didn't. Hodgson was and never will be good enough no matter what some of his chums in the media and LMA say, most Liverpool fans didn't fall for it and that's why they never really got behind him and turned on him like no other manager has seen at Liverpool. He shown so many times he was out of his depth and the board had little option to remove him, but that brought another problem, trying to replace the manager mid season.

The only option they had was to bring in Dalglish in the interim, which I'm glad they did because everyone in the club had to be singing from the same hymn sheet whether it was the board, the manager, players or the fans and that's what's happening at the moment. Personally, I don't want Dalglish in the long run and i don't think bringing back Rafa is the best option now either. Hopefully Dalglish can steady the ship, get to the end of the season and start afresh with a new manager.

Re: More Football Chat : Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:42 pm  

keithcun wrote:

The point I was making was that the uneducated scot was suggesting that Dalglish's success was on the back of inheriting the squad Fagan left him. In '85/'86, there's a case for that because he also had Paisley with him as well. But, he signed McMahon (his first in '85), Beardsley, Aldridge, Houghton and Barnes (all in the '87/88 season) and I think Spackman came in later in the '87/'88 season and he sculpted the players he had and the players he bought into a great team. Add to that Rush, one of the most prolific strikers in the world also left at the same time. So to suggest that his success was because of the team that Fagan left is complete bollox.

You'd have to admit though that the Dalglish era was an up and down affair, with the downs being more significant in the long term than his successes?

Certainly, the 87/88 season was his pinnacle, but only after battering the transfer market after he had been trounced the previous season by Everton....At that time, that sort of splurge in the transfer market was pretty unheard of, especially by Liverpool, who always had a reputation of being prudent in the market and picking up bargain buys, like Rush, Hansen, Nicol, etc.

That success was pretty short term considering the money spent and by 1990 the cracks had appeared in his management....Despite winning the league, probably the most memorable Liverpool game that season was the humiliating semi final defeat against Crystal Palace, which was the start of the end for Kenny, who had no answer to aging players who were nearing the end of their careers and being replaced with average players....David Speedie anyone?

Dalglish's big positive is that he knows the club and its expectations, something which Hodgson struggled to get to grips with, but as I think you'd agree, in the long term, Liverpool need a fresh start.