Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:26 pm  

Adamjk wrote:

Was baffled by Fergie's post-match comments. Everton played some good football in the first half and put together some decent passing moves. They didn't simply 'lump the ball' up to Fellaini the whole game. They were by far the better team and could have won by 3 or 4.

Fergie had De Gea and a crossbar to thank for not having a much bigger score against them.

I'm no fan of Everton, and while it's true they sat off when they went 1 up they were well, well worth their win.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:50 pm  

Adamjk wrote:

Was baffled by Fergie's post-match comments. Everton played some good football in the first half and put together some decent passing moves. They didn't simply 'lump the ball' up to Fellaini the whole game. They were by far the better team and could have won by 3 or 4.

Indeed. Everton aren't a long ball team now and haven't been for a few years. We've not had a proper target man to do that with and with the likes of Osman, Pienaar and Baines in advanced positions there is no reason to be one. Fellaini was pushed right up as a tactical response to United's weakness at the back. Vidic wasn't anywhere near fit, he looks ill and has lost a good couple of stone. But despite that, it wasn't mindless balls lumped up, the passing was brilliant. It was direct at times, but always to Fellaini, not just mindlessly thumped forwards. There was also a mix of passing, a lot of one touch stuff that really opened United up.

Fergie has spent £24m to try and ensure his promise that City won't beat them on goal difference ever again. But he's still not solved the problems everyone else can see they have. He's becoming as stubborn as Wenger. They still have no midfield, Scholes and Kagawa are quality with the ball, but offer nothing at all when they don't. Cleverley just seems anonymous in both regards, the game just passes him by. Rather than the £24m on Van Persie, he should have spent it on a Vidal, M'Vila, Javi Martinez, Nainggolan type midfielder and Baines to replace Evra, who is awful.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:11 pm  

Saddened! wrote:

Indeed. Everton aren't a long ball team now and haven't been for a few years. We've not had a proper target man to do that with and with the likes of Osman, Pienaar and Baines in advanced positions there is no reason to be one. Fellaini was pushed right up as a tactical response to United's weakness at the back. Vidic wasn't anywhere near fit, he looks ill and has lost a good couple of stone. But despite that, it wasn't mindless balls lumped up, the passing was brilliant. It was direct at times, but always to Fellaini, not just mindlessly thumped forwards. There was also a mix of passing, a lot of one touch stuff that really opened United up.

Fergie has spent £24m to try and ensure his promise that City won't beat them on goal difference ever again. But he's still not solved the problems everyone else can see they have. He's becoming as stubborn as Wenger. They still have no midfield, Scholes and Kagawa are quality with the ball, but offer nothing at all when they don't. Cleverley just seems anonymous in both regards, the game just passes him by. Rather than the £24m on Van Persie, he should have spent it on a Vidal, M'Vila, Javi Martinez, Nainggolan type midfielder and Baines to replace Evra, who is awful.

You will always have an element of long ball in your game under Moyes. Even without a target man - or sometimes even a striker - your lot still punted it long, but instead of challenging for the aerial ball, you would chase for the flicks and deflections, or try to force the defender into a mistake and capitalise on it. Furthermore, if you aren't a long ball team, you're definitely a set piece team. Diving around anywhere near the halfway line just so you could throw Yagyelka and Distin forward.

Your football has always depended on your personnel. During your peak of 'decent football', you had the likes of Arteta, Pienaar, Bily and even Leon Osman playing quite well. It'll be interesting to see how you play this season now Jelavic is a known quantity. Moyes has always struggled with strikers, he now seems to have a fairly reliable one. There's no Cahill in the hole now so he will have to get a lot of his goals through his striker. IMO, it'll be back to set pieces and diagonals by October.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Thu Aug 23, 2012 12:00 pm  

Nuri Sahin is last years Juan Mata. Marca now claiming LFC are favourites to sign the Turk, AFC stalling apparantley because they want a clause that allows them to buy Sahin next year.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:37 pm  

Wigan have accepted a bid of £9m from Chelsea for Moses

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:54 pm  

http://www.thehardtackle.com/2012/chels ... on-column/

http://www.thehardtackle.com/2012/chels ... on-column/

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:08 am  

Lord Tony Smith wrote:

Nuri Sahin is last years Juan Mata. Marca now claiming LFC are favourites to sign the Turk, AFC stalling apparantley because they want a clause that allows them to buy Sahin next year.

Most talk seems to be that Arsenal have pulled out leaving us clear to sign him. Problem seems to be a lack of agreed price. If he does well we're screwed because he's an outstanding player, if he has a good season in England you're looking at £25m+ assuming Madrid would like him back. If Madrid just want rid or they sign somebody else (Modric maybe?), we might be able to get him for a cut price.

I like Sahin. I remember reading loads about him after his early breakthrough into senior football. Never saw much in his early days but I did see him a couple of times on loan at Feyenoord. Seen a few of his games during his last season at Dortmund, he was a different class back then, I just hope he can hit those heights immediately for us. I think it'll take a while for him to adjust to the pace and industry of the English game, but given time he should adjust and become our star midfielder.

[John_D]

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:53 am  

Roddy B wrote:

I think it'll take a while for him to adjust to the pace and industry of the English game

Bejaysus. Can we can that phrase now? Didn't look like Hazard, Kagawa, Cazorla and others needed time to 'adjust'.
It's a long-since-busted myth.

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:44 pm  

John_D wrote:

Bejaysus. Can we can that phrase now? Didn't look like Hazard, Kagawa, Cazorla and others needed time to 'adjust'.
It's a long-since-busted myth.

It isn't though, not always. Every player can take a while to settle in, all of the players you named have only played one game in the league! Do you remember how Deco started and finished? What about Elano? David Silva took time to adjust to England, as did Modric. If I felt it wouldn't take him time, I wouldn't have said it, but I feel with Sahin - especially given how little he's played for the past twelve months - it will take him a bit of time to settle into the ridiculously industrious play. It happens with a lot of new players, yeah, they can play it about and show their skill, but will they be sharp enough for every intercept, every loose flick on, etc.? I really like him and don't think it will take him too long to settle in with us, but it will take a few weeks and a few starts.

[John_D]

Re: Football Chat Thread - Euro 2012 edition : Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:55 pm  

Roddy B wrote:

It isn't though, not always. Every player can take a while to settle in, all of the players you named have only played one game in the league! Do you remember how Deco started and finished? What about Elano? David Silva took time to adjust to England, as did Modric. If I felt it wouldn't take him time, I wouldn't have said it, but I feel with Sahin - especially given how little he's played for the past twelve months - it will take him a bit of time to settle into the ridiculously industrious play. It happens with a lot of new players, yeah, they can play it about and show their skill, but will they be sharp enough for every intercept, every loose flick on, etc.? I really like him and don't think it will take him too long to settle in with us, but it will take a few weeks and a few starts.

Yeah, it'll take a while before all those tricks and flicks and ball retention are forgotten and kick-and-rush becomes the new mantra. I don't buy it.
There have been plenty of internal transfers that haven't worked out and nobody bats an eyelid. But take someone from outside the league and suddenly it's a huge deal. Nope. Not having it.

Point taken about Sahin's lack of football recently, but he's come from one of the fastest, hardest pressing teams in Europe. If you want ridiculous industry, Dortmund are it.