Re: Squad for Wire : Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:35 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Yet 2 weeks ago you were saying the ref had to stop a game because he needed to get the medical people on?
Now I know I'm being a bit disingenuous - but the principal is the same
In future when players go down with head knocks as I said on the other thread there should be no need to stop the game as the medical people have all the permissions to enter the field of play. Especially when later in the game we were stopping the game for Cramp! Cramp! for gods sake!!!!

As for the incident - Agree completely it was unintentional.
The ref should have gone to the VR irrespective (And they should look at the Ratchford Hastings coming together).

My opinion - It's a penalty
However - All chip paper now

Thank you. I'm not the only one who sees it.

Sorry to keep going on at Grimmy, it isn't personal, more annoyed at the institutions that change their agenda to suit the latest f up. One min it's all about head injuries, even when they are unintentional, the next it's play on when there's a guy lay on the floor with a potential head injury.

Re: Squad for Wire : Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:42 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Yet 2 weeks ago you were saying the ref had to stop a game because he needed to get the medical people on?

Absolutely, but we need a tackle competed first so that we have somewhere to restart the game from. If Mamo gets tackled 1 metre from our try line with a try sure to be scored on the next play I would still expect time to go off there for a head injury even though he would be nowhere near play. The problem they have is that no tackle has been completed so we don't have a restart if we stop it there and then. It's just sod's law that instead of someone diving on the ball and getting tackled so we can have time off straight away, we instead get a full length try with a man down with a head injury in back play, which of course looks terrible. The medical people were on by the way, they (rightly) don't wait for time off. He's being dealt with during the break.

Re: Squad for Wire : Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:05 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Absolutely, but we need a tackle competed first so that we have somewhere to restart the game from. If Mamo gets tackled 1 metre from our try line with a try sure to be scored on the next play I would still expect time to go off there for a head injury even though he would be nowhere near play. The problem they have is that no tackle has been completed so we don't have a restart if we stop it there and then. It's just sod's law that instead of someone diving on the ball and getting tackled so we can have time off straight away, we instead get a full length try with a man down with a head injury in back play, which of course looks terrible. The medical people were on by the way, they (rightly) don't wait for time off. He's being dealt with during the break.

Going off topic here slightly I appreciate
But WTF!

Why stop the game if he is 80mtrs away being treated? How does that improve his treatment etc.!!!
If it is serious medical people can call play etc.

But because we do stop the game we get players Feigning head injuries (Not last night, I'm talking about my observations of the 4/5 games recently where the game stopped 12/15 times).

As for restarting the game - Isa wasn't tackled when he bumped Philbin off, I know another player came towards him and put hands on him when Isa stops himself, but he wasn't tackled. Ref stopped game and gave that Isa was tackled.

Not knowing how to restart a game is no reason not to stop the game!
And irrespective of that - Not going to the VR was the big mistake

What would have happened after that may be debatable - because no matter what the refs will circle and say they would have given play on
A Mate of mine was involved in a decision that Thaler got wrong about 5/6 years ago, Thaler tried to convince him why he was right, rounding up all the officials to back him up, he didn't, his career ended shortly afterwards.

Re: Squad for Wire : Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:06 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Thank you. I'm not the only one who sees it.

Sorry to keep going on at Grimmy, it isn't personal, more annoyed at the institutions that change their agenda to suit the latest f up. One min it's all about head injuries, even when they are unintentional, the next it's play on when there's a guy lay on the floor with a potential head injury.

And yet despite the concern over head injuries were not going to stop the game, because we don't know how to Restart the game!
Astounding!

Re: Squad for Wire : Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:13 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Going off topic here slightly I appreciate
But WTF!

Why stop the game if he is 80mtrs away being treated? How does that improve his treatment etc.!!!
If it is serious medical people can call play etc.

But because we do stop the game we get players Feigning head injuries (Not last night, I'm talking about my observations of the 4/5 games recently where the game stopped 12/15 times).

As for restarting the game - Isa wasn't tackled when he bumped Philbin off, I know another player came towards him and put hands on him when Isa stops himself, but he wasn't tackled. Ref stopped game and gave that Isa was tackled.

Not knowing how to restart a game is no reason not to stop the game!
And irrespective of that - Not going to the VR was the big mistake

What would have happened after that may be debatable - because no matter what the refs will circle and say they would have given play on
A Mate of mine was involved in a decision that Thaler got wrong about 5/6 years ago, Thaler tried to convince him why he was right, rounding up all the officials to back him up, he didn't, his career ended shortly afterwards.

Well maybe they need a rule for how to restart the game when it is stopped when the ball is live then, but I promise you that was 100% the reason the game wasn't stopped there. They will always stop at the next tackle for a head injury or when the doctor comes on (both of which happened) regardless of where it is on the pitch. Of course you and I know that once teams know they can go down holding their heads that the game will be stopped immediately (rather than at the next tackle) there will be all sorts of abuse of that system. I don't believe the Wire fans that Marshall was feigning injury, but it's easy to see how you could abuse such a rule if we made one. Just go down holding your head as soon as any break is made and you have saved a try.

I can't remember the Isa one. If you know when in the game it was I'll take a look. The game was bloody dross to be honest so I was losing interest!

Re: Squad for Wire : Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:34 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Well maybe they need a rule for how to restart the game when it is stopped when the ball is live then, but I promise you that was 100% the reason the game wasn't stopped there. They will always stop at the next tackle for a head injury or when the doctor comes on (both of which happened) regardless of where it is on the pitch. Of course you and I know that once teams know they can go down holding their heads that the game will be stopped immediately (rather than at the next tackle) there will be all sorts of abuse of that system. I don't believe the Wire fans that Marshall was feigning injury, but it's easy to see how you could abuse such a rule if we made one. Just go down holding your head as soon as any break is made and you have saved a try.

I can't remember the Isa one. If you know when in the game it was I'll take a look. The game was bloody dross to be honest so I was losing interest!

Towards the end of the 1st half. Isa runs it in, collides with Phillbin who drops straight down and play is correctly stopped.

Goes back to the Hudds game, Powell is injured and nothing happens but Jones goes down and play gets stopped.

Re: Squad for Wire : Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:35 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Well maybe they need a rule for how to restart the game when it is stopped when the ball is live then, but I promise you that was 100% the reason the game wasn't stopped there. They will always stop at the next tackle for a head injury or when the doctor comes on (both of which happened) regardless of where it is on the pitch. Of course you and I know that once teams know they can go down holding their heads that the game will be stopped immediately (rather than at the next tackle) there will be all sorts of abuse of that system. I don't believe the Wire fans that Marshall was feigning injury, but it's easy to see how you could abuse such a rule if we made one. Just go down holding your head as soon as any break is made and you have saved a try.

Just wait one second - Your mis interpreting my point
I'm not saying the game should have been stopped (And thus I am not saying that players/teams will go down to stop a try being scored) - I'm saying that you have previously said that the game should be stopped for a Head injury, but now it should only stop if the next tackle is completed?
How does that help in the care of the injured player, and f it doesn't why do we stop the game at EVERY Head injury point
Another case of people being brainwashed into one way of thinking, bringing a rule in to try and cover every eventuality that actually creates more problems than it solves.

As for how to restart the game - That shouldn't be the consideration
However
You've admitted that Hicks should have gone to VR and that's the crux of the issue- And I don't think anyone (Certainly only the most biased would) would disagree he should have. I would love a little bet that if he had we would be having a far different conversation - Because a player "In possession" was injured by what (Although maybe not illegal) wouldn't be classed as Legal i.e. you won't see anything anywhere that says it's ok to do that

Re: Squad for Wire : Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:57 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Being unintentionally kicked isn't a penalty, no. They were correct to play on as no tackle had been completed. They would have had no way to restart the game otherwise. I do think they should have gone to the video ref to check whether there was anything intentional from Charnley though.

I think people aren't realising (or are wilfully ignoring) that Marshall was getting medical assistance as the break was happening. Putting time off mid-play wouldn't have got him treatment any quicker than he did get it.

they could have restarted the game the same as they did with Philbin, Isa wasnt tackled but the game was stopped

Re: Squad for Wire : Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:04 pm  

Pieman wrote:

they could have restarted the game the same as they did with Philbin, Isa wasnt tackled but the game was stopped

To be fair Isa and everyone else stopped where as with the Marshall incident everyone carried on

Re: Squad for Wire : Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:18 pm  

100% Warrior wrote:

To be fair Isa and everyone else stopped where as with the Marshall incident everyone carried on

so could have restarted the game the same as there was no tackle complete....just because people stopped the ref was the one who actually stopped the game