Re: Smithies and Partington : Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:11 pm  

ChrisA wrote:

Aside from effort, commitment and good defence (fundementals), you've not mentioned anything that would seperate them from average. I'm talking about natural ability, things you can spot a mile off. They don't break the line, they don't offload, neither run great angles, they aren't big, they aren't quick, neither make yard post contact.

My point isn't to put them down, I'm asking what attributes they bring? Is their main attributes what we've both mentioned, effort and commitment?

They’ve got plenty of attributes but I don’t want to discuss strengths and weaknesses of them in great detail at the minute because I don’t think it’s fair. They’re playing in a junior pack, who are being asked to play a mans game. I’d give a proper judgement as and when they’re playing in a proper pack. It’s not to side step your question, I agree there are things to work on but it’s impossible to give a balanced view on them at the minute and I’d rather have a thread about what Singleton, Clubb, Clark and Bullock are bringing to the table.

Re: Smithies and Partington : Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:58 pm  

Simple, they bring nothing to the table. We have thread on our prop problem. If we suddenly eplace them 4 with decent props, our back rowers are fit, I don't know where Partington and Smithies fit in, which again makes my point. They would't force their way into a good pack.

Re: Smithies and Partington : Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:04 pm  

ChrisA wrote:

Simple, they bring nothing to the table. We have thread on our prop problem. If we suddenly eplace them 4 with decent props, our back rowers are fit, I don't know where Partington and Smithies fit in, which again makes my point. They woumdt force their wY into a good pack.

I think they are all decent young lads. The issue is balance, you'd probably take two max of Smithies, Isa, Partington and Singleton as they are all defensive type players. You can't however stick them all in the same side and wonder why we're getting dominated in attack.

Re: Smithies and Partington : Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:07 pm  

ChrisA wrote:

Simple, they bring nothing to the table. We have thread on our prop problem. If we suddenly eplace them 4 with decent props, our back rowers are fit, I don't know where Partington and Smithies fit in, which again makes my point. They woumdt force their wY into a good pack.

People said that about Sean O’Loughlin once upon a time.

What’s your view on Morgan Knowles out of interest?

Re: Smithies and Partington : Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:11 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

They both make as much ground as somebody like Morgan Knowles.

I don't believe that for a second.

Re: Smithies and Partington : Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:27 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

I don't believe that for a second.

Believe it.

Morgan Knowles-

average metres per carry-

2019-5.88m
2020-6.13m

Total metres

2019-1218m
2020-838m


He’s hardly been busting defences up and is statistically very similar to the two mentioned in this thread. He is very similar in style IMO, in that he brings defensive intensity and aggression but he has one huge advantage-he plays in a good pack. He’s also further on in his development.

Re: Smithies and Partington : Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:42 pm  

Think both are excellent prospects and were so comfortable in 2019 once they broke into the first team.

Think it’s fair to say we are waiting them to step up to the next level.

As has been said they’ve been over relied upon due to the poor performances from the senior props, hence threads like this.

Re: Smithies and Partington : Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:45 pm  

NickyKiss wrote: Believe it. Morgan Knowles- average metres per carry- 2019-5.88m 2020-6.13m Total metres 2019-1218m 2020-838m He’s hardly been busting defences up and is statistically very similar to the two mentioned in this thread. He is very similar in style IMO, in that he brings defensive intensity and aggression but he has one huge advantage-he plays in a good pack. He’s also further on in his development. He is this year averaging 8.12m a carry according to the official SL site (https://www.superleague.co.uk/player/13/morgan-knowles) so curious where your numbers are from. Also in 2018/2019 Knowles played a lot of games at hooker which would impact average gain stats as he was not a scooter

NickyKiss wrote: Believe it. Morgan Knowles- average metres per carry- 2019-5.88m 2020-6.13m Total metres 2019-1218m 2020-838m He’s hardly been busting defences up and is statistically very similar to the two mentioned in this thread. He is very similar in style IMO, in that he brings defensive intensity and aggression but he has one huge advantage-he plays in a good pack. He’s also further on in his development. He is this year averaging 8.12m a carry according to the official SL site (https://www.superleague.co.uk/player/13/morgan-knowles) so curious where your numbers are from. Also in 2018/2019 Knowles played a lot of games at hooker which would impact average gain stats as he was not a scooter

Re: Smithies and Partington : Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:50 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote: He is this year averaging 8.12m a carry according to the official SL site (https://www.superleague.co.uk/player/13/morgan-knowles) so curious where your numbers are from. Also in 2018/2019 Knowles played a lot of games at hooker which would impact average gain stats as he was not a scooter They’re from the superleague site and are absolutely correct for 2019 and 2020. He didn’t play that much hooker did he? Certainly not in the two years I mention. I’m the first to admit the lad has kicked on and I really rate him. The point I’m getting at is that young players need time and they need the right quality around them. Morgan Knowles had that, these two being bagged on here don’t. The fact Knowles us knocking out better numbers this year backs up my point that young players will keep improving with experience but more importantly, in the right environment.

Magic Superbeetle wrote: He is this year averaging 8.12m a carry according to the official SL site (https://www.superleague.co.uk/player/13/morgan-knowles) so curious where your numbers are from. Also in 2018/2019 Knowles played a lot of games at hooker which would impact average gain stats as he was not a scooter They’re from the superleague site and are absolutely correct for 2019 and 2020. He didn’t play that much hooker did he? Certainly not in the two years I mention. I’m the first to admit the lad has kicked on and I really rate him. The point I’m getting at is that young players need time and they need the right quality around them. Morgan Knowles had that, these two being bagged on here don’t. The fact Knowles us knocking out better numbers this year backs up my point that young players will keep improving with experience but more importantly, in the right environment.

Re: Smithies and Partington : Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:07 pm  

NSW wrote:

Think both are excellent prospects and were so comfortable in 2019 once they broke into the first team.

Think it’s fair to say we are waiting them to step up to the next level.

As has been said they’ve been over relied upon due to the poor performances from the senior props, hence threads like this.

So if we replace our failing props with decent ones, where do they fit in the team? I know it looks like I have something against them, I don't, I just don't see anything offensively in them.

Combine Bullocks physical size, speed and ability with Partingtons aggression/desire and you've got potentially the best prop in the league. We just have too many players lacking in the forwards, whether it be size, commitment, aggression or talent/ability.

I agree its hard to focus on the homegrown lads, trying their best, doing everything they can. However, their everything, isn't enough IMO.