Re: Smith and Smithies : Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:53 am  

Wigg'n wrote:

Smithies arguably outplayed Bateman last night who definitely isn't at his best at the minute - possibly also playing with an injury.

Partington is kind of making the 13 shirt his own at the minute but still lacks any real skill with the ball really which is a big shame. I'd still love to see Hastings as a ball playing 13 this year at some point but obviously not a long term option.

Isa another conundrum. It seems like he won't lose his place in the starting 13 and why should he? His quick passing from centre to put Bibby away multiple times has really impressed me but when everyone is on-form and fit he is our 3rd best second rower and 3rd best centre (4th if you include Farrell).

Id say Smithies is ahead of Isa at second row now.

Re: Smith and Smithies : Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:47 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

If Lam is still claiming he’s out of position at the minute then I’m not buying it. His time at loose forward will come but it’s as clear as day to me that his best position at the minute is in the second row.

If Lam's saying Smithies is out of position then he's wrong given Smithies played just as much of his academy rugby at second row, if not more so than loose forward. Smithies and Shorrocks were somewhat interchangeable as far as I can remember. What I remember most from watching the academy was that Smithies stood out a lot more at second row than down the middle. For the England academy Smithies was played at 13 and his work rate was phenomenal (while Shorrocks played interchange second row). I think that sort of cemented the idea of Smithies as a 13 but his current performances suggest otherwise. I think in the first team Smithies is impressing more as a left sided second row and Shorrocks is impressing more at loose.

If you want strong carries and nothing fancy down the middle you'd be happy with Smithies at 13. If you want to put on some big shifts from side to side you'd want Shorrocks, who showed some very good passing last night.

Basically when it comes to back row and loose we've got an embarrassment of riches - but when it comes to our props, that's a different matter. It seems we're almost destined to be playing loads of back rowers in place of props like last season because they are making themselves hard to drop.

Re: Smith and Smithies : Fri Apr 30, 2021 3:26 pm  

I recall Smithies playing plenty at second row also and as you say him and Shorrocks mixing it up a bit. Wasn’t Kabila around the squad at the same time? He played at loose forward quite a bit.

I’m sure he’ll end up at Loose forward but for now I’d be using him mainly in the second row and letting Bateman and even Isa go in to the middle before him.

Re: Smith and Smithies : Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:08 pm  

Wigg'n wrote:

Partington is kind of making the 13 shirt his own at the minute but still lacks any real skill with the ball really which is a big shame.
.

Just an aside but Byrne and Shorrocks have put in some good passes to change the point of attack.

Re: Smith and Smithies : Fri Apr 30, 2021 5:37 pm  

That is surely part of the training. The Bibby try was clearly a training-ground move, started by Shorrocks throwing the long pass to Hastings. Everyone set up ready, go through the hands, and over in the corner. Very nice.

Re: Smith and Smithies : Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:50 pm  

Smithies does not have the skills of a ball handling 13 nor the size of a meter making middle.

He is a hardworking secondrow and a good one at that.

He isn’t big enough to mix it in the middle but he does a good job on an edge.

He is, at the moment, the natural successor to Isa in the 3 man rotation at secondrow.

Re: Smith and Smithies : Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:12 pm  

jonh wrote:

Smithies does not have the skills of a ball handling 13 nor the size of a meter making middle.

He is a hardworking secondrow and a good one at that.

He isn’t big enough to mix it in the middle but he does a good job on an edge.

He is, at the moment, the natural successor to Isa in the 3 man rotation at secondrow.

Even as somebody who doesn’t think we should be playing him in the middle at the minute, I do still think he can do a job there. I agree he’s not really a ball player but even last season, he was making more ground through the middle than Partington currently is. That isn’t bagging Partington either, he’s doing a good job for us and brings a lot of those things to a team you just can’t measure statistically. I just see it currently that Smithies has looked like a solid/good loose forward but he’s looking like a very good second rower.

On a side note, he will take over from Isa and I wonder if that will be in 2022. I noticed that Isa’s partner has signed for a women’s team in the USA (she’s currently a footballer for Man City’s women’s team if anyone doesn’t know) and can’t help but wonder if Willie will have spoken to a team in this new North American League and picked up a club. In terms of lifestyle, I couldn’t blame them if they decided to relocate over there.

Re: Smith and Smithies : Sat May 01, 2021 8:37 am  

Some players suffer because of their own utility. Isa has been criticised for not being big/fast enough position x. It is good to see him being rewarded for his valuable contribution. If he decides that a new challenge in the USA is what he is up for I would personally lead the guard of honour for his efforts. Can Smithies follow that? I do not know but he is more limited than Isa. Like a lot of people I am hoping that KPP can step up because he has already shown a flair that most forwards do not have. The worry is that he may not be robust enough.

Re: Smith and Smithies : Sat May 08, 2021 9:01 pm  

Smithies back to type today with that awful penalty, I thought he'd improved over the last few weeks but there it was again.
Isa/Farrell back in the 2nd row and he's dropped altogether.

Re: Smith and Smithies : Sat May 08, 2021 9:32 pm  

Smith lack composure and Smithies is a great young grafter.

Sadly we have a pack of great young grafters we need some experience and quality that’s a little different to what we currently have.