FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - v Hull FC
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach9219
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 21 200519 years102nd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Mar 24 23:0627th Mar 24 13:20LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Leeds

Re: v Hull FC : Wed May 05, 2021 2:23 pm  
Dom Manfredi will be in the 21 man squad. Not sure Lam will move the backline around in a big game just to accommodate him though.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain659No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 09 20159 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
10th May 21 13:336th May 21 14:40LINK
Milestone Posts
500
1000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: v Hull FC : Wed May 05, 2021 2:34 pm  
The Hollywood Frasier wrote:
No because it's not a race.


Neither is Polynesian.
Pemps 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach18736No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 14 200519 years253rd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Mar 24 17:3516th Nov 23 17:08LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Usually on here
Signature
king warrior wrote:
Adam Blair flew over yesterday and has been training the deal is going to be signed this week

Got to say this is a top signing
Moderator

Re: v Hull FC : Wed May 05, 2021 3:33 pm  
sergeant pepper wrote:
What will education do tho?

Looking at social media and talking to people there seems to be mixed views on if what he said is racist or even offensive. Things move on and change and it's not just a question of black or white. The worlds a much smaller place and people are ignorant, perhaps through no fault of their own, to what constitutes an offensive comment and what doesn't.

There's a post above this saying Polynesian isn't a race. There's some ambiguity around whether or not it is a race but I would argue that it is.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Captain1892
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 30 20177 years206th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Mar 24 22:2526th Mar 24 18:57LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff.

Re: v Hull FC : Wed May 05, 2021 3:48 pm  
Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander
nikos 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2150
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 21 200618 years281st
OnlineLast PostLast Page
8th Jan 24 15:5318th Dec 23 11:23LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
in a world of my own
Signature
Wellens 3/10 Like public transport. Late, slow and stunk

FIOS

Re: v Hull FC : Wed May 05, 2021 3:54 pm  
Pemps wrote:
Looking at social media and talking to people there seems to be mixed views on if what he said is racist or even offensive. Things move on and change and it's not just a question of black or white. The worlds a much smaller place and people are ignorant, perhaps through no fault of their own, to what constitutes an offensive comment and what doesn't.

There's a post above this saying Polynesian isn't a race. There's some ambiguity around whether or not it is a race but I would argue that it is.


Ive heard it said that the judge of whether a comment is offensive has to be the person it is aimed at....
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member29166
JoinedServiceReputation
Nov 08 200419 years16th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Mar 24 23:1827th Mar 24 12:49LINK
Milestone Posts
25000
30000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
WIGAN

Re: v Hull FC : Wed May 05, 2021 3:54 pm  
Pemps wrote:
Looking at social media and talking to people there seems to be mixed views on if what he said is racist or even offensive. Things move on and change and it's not just a question of black or white. The worlds a much smaller place and people are ignorant, perhaps through no fault of their own, to what constitutes an offensive comment and what doesn't.

There's a post above this saying Polynesian isn't a race. There's some ambiguity around whether or not it is a race but I would argue that it is.


Spot on. I read the comment you’re replying to and the poster says what will sitting in a classroom for a couple of weeks do, if you’re racist, you’re racist and that’s unlikely to change. There is surely a difference between being a racist and making a racist comment you may not have been aware would be taken that way? That is where education and support would help all players.

I said at the start of all this that there isn’t a league table of racist comments based on severity but ultimately I think we’d all be in agreement that Clubb should’ve been sacked had he racially abused a black player for example but we all get to see/hear examples of black people being racially abused on a very regular basis. This is different and whilst it’s wrong and it will be upsetting for Savelio, his family and the Polynesian race in general, I think there’s enough ambiguity on the situation (as you say) to cut him some slack and use it as a way of trying to help all the players across the game.

What I would agree with from posts above is that Clubb really should come out and apologise on this. I get he couldn’t do that until this case was closed but there’s nothing stopping him now. I would hope we’ll hear him do that or at least hear that he’s spoken to Savelio in private.
Grimmy 
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach15436
JoinedServiceReputation
Jul 16 200519 years199th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
26th Mar 24 18:5414th Dec 23 10:22LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
Frank Zappa wrote:
Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.

The_Enforcer wrote:
Most idiotic post ever goes to Grimmy..... The way to restart should be an arm wrestle between a designated player from each side.

Re: v Hull FC : Wed May 05, 2021 3:54 pm  
sergeant pepper wrote:
What will education do tho? It almost falls into the realms of speed awareness courses i.e people go on the course and ultimately forget about them after a few days later. In many ways they take the course as it's soft option Vs real punishment.

Let's be realistic - if a person is racist, homophobic etc then sitting in a classroom for a couple of weeks isn't going to change their outlook on life.

You aren't going to change someone who is actively racist, but I think you can educate people who perhaps didn't think about the impact of his words, or how they might impact the person on the other end of them. I'd like to think Clubb is in the latter category, ignorant rather than racist, which can hopefully be rectified with education.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach7718
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 30 200420 years81st
OnlineLast PostLast Page
27th Mar 24 23:5827th Mar 24 22:54LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Sorting my Erection out & Helping Conroy With his!
Signature
Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock

"I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count"

[quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote]

Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!"

I thanked him and went on my Merry way!

RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015!

"The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth."

Officially one of the 119 Mugs used by the club

Re: v Hull FC : Wed May 05, 2021 3:56 pm  
sergeant pepper wrote:
What will education do tho? It almost falls into the realms of speed awareness courses i.e people go on the course and ultimately forget about them after a few days later. In many ways they take the course as it's soft option Vs real punishment.

Let's be realistic - if a person is racist, homophobic etc then sitting in a classroom for a couple of weeks isn't going to change their outlook on life.


You call it realistic
I say that if a person goes on a speed awareness course to "Only" find the easiest soft option then that speaks more about the person involved than it does about the society we want.
I would suggest that a Lot of people take the speed awareness course and LEARN from it
If they don't they will soon be back there and you don't get a 2nd chance and the punishment is greater and could include a Ban etc or worse if they keep reoffending?

other option

Do nothing - How does that help?
Sack him (The equivalent of lock him up throw away the Key) - Good luck with that, and to don't be surprised if there were multiple ramifications from that type of outlook

Your also saying if a person is racist as if it is a (No pun intended here honest) Black & White subject, it isn't - It is a much more nuanced situation with many angles and grey areas, I wouldn't call myself racist, have I made mistakes yes, but I would call them clumsy honest mistakes rather than deliberate ones. There has to be a way back from such situations rather than immediately saying You're a racist and forever will be one.
I had the unfortunate misfortune of being part of a WhatsApp group for a Last Man Standing (Football thing to win money) which has over a hundred people in it.
Last night after the 8 match announcement you had the noisiest people on that group shouting the loudest from the Right Wing/Left Wing of the subject. I.e. He's done nowt wrong, you can't say anything these days, lefty Snowflakes on one side to the "It's the worst thing in the world, Zero tolerance etc. Brigade on the other
The truth lies in-between and the silent majority are probably not too far away with their thoughts in the middle but just can't be bothered discussing with idiots from wither side.

it's a delicate situation
I wouldn't; expect someone who does 35 in a 30 to get the same punishment as someone who's stole a car, and is doing 100mph with dangerous intentions - Whilst both are technically Speeding there is a world of difference between the two - But some want to implement say a Zero tolerance side of the argument - Whilst others will say Bloody Hell haven't the Police got better things to do than worry about someone going a bit over the speed limit - Neither is right to apply the same punishment to both offences.

I saw a Hull fan saying how can Liam Farrell get away with a head high tackle when Connor gets sin binned and a subsequent ban
If that person can't see the difference between the two that's their problem no matter how loud they shout
Someone wanted Havard (I think they called him Havant) suspended the same as the guy from Leeds for a shoulder charge after the ball had gone
If that person can't see the difference between the two that's their problem no matter how loud they shout

"IF" Clubb has held his hands up and apologised, Owned his mistake and wants to learn from it then he deserves the chance to do so and the club should help him with that.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member3414
JoinedServiceReputation
Dec 22 200122 years296th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
28th Mar 24 00:1920th Mar 24 11:36LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
At the match with Aoife on my shoulders
Signature
No trees were harmed during the creation of this post.
However, a number of electrons were mildly inconvenienced.
.
Saint94 wrote "Every team is in your feckin shadow....we all know." - Amen to that, brother
.
Saddened! wrote "We've got the worst backline in the competition, bar possibly London and Wakey. I'd swap our 1-7 with Salford in a heartbeat."

Re: v Hull FC : Wed May 05, 2021 4:22 pm  
Pemps wrote:
Looking at social media and talking to people there seems to be mixed views on if what he said is racist or even offensive. Things move on and change and it's not just a question of black or white. The worlds a much smaller place and people are ignorant, perhaps through no fault of their own, to what constitutes an offensive comment and what doesn't.

There's a post above this saying Polynesian isn't a race. There's some ambiguity around whether or not it is a race but I would argue that it is.


I'm not certain that even the RFL have been able to decide whether Polynesia is race or a place, and I'm worried now that they might have just opened themselves up to a whole raft of claims/reports, based on their press release.

The first paragraph reads:
Wigan Warriors forward Tony Clubb has been banned for eight matches after an independent Operational Rules Tribunal found him guilty of using ‘unacceptable language based on national or ethnic origin’ towards Hull FC’s Andre Savelio


That now means that nationality is classed equally with race?

So calling (for instance) Brian Carney a silly Irish {insert insult here}, or an Aussie calling someone a Pommy {insult}, etc. would be deemed equally offensive to the use of black/n****r/p*ki ???

Surely that can't be right?

Lifting the mood - Surely re-educating Clubb should be fairly simple.
Teach him to use single-word insults, or double-word if he REALLY means it.

In other words, stick to either "c***" or "fxxxing cxxx".
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star3834
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 25 201212 years109th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
28th Mar 24 06:2126th Mar 24 19:12LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
In the sky with diamonds
Signature
23 LEAGUE TITLES
20 CHALLENGE CUPS
5 WORLD TITLES
SAYS IT ALL REALLY

Re: v Hull FC : Wed May 05, 2021 4:27 pm  
Jukesays wrote:
snip


You've missed my point slightly.

I'm not saying that he shouldn't have been punished and I'm also not saying that we should sack him either. Like you, I've seen calls for both - they are wrong and 8 matches + a fine is right for me.

What I am arguing however is that there's little point in the education part. I get the theory behind it, but for me it's academic or signalling BS. Let's take Clubb as an example - I don't think he's racist (the character testimonials back that up) and I don't think he's an idiot either. He's probably said what he did to get a reaction (heat of the moment) & whilst that's still wrong and something he needs to be punished for - what benefit will there be to the course? Are we saying he's that thick that he doesn't know what racism is?

For a driving awareness course, you don't need to be told that speed kills. It's pretty obvious. I occasionally speed and I'm sure most on here do too. I'm fully aware of the dangers and implications of that. I also know that, if I get caught, then I'll be punished inline with how much I'd broken the speed limit. I don't need to go on a course to learn that.

In regards to your other points about not being able to see the difference, you are right. I wouldn't however think that going on an education course would help them understand it any better.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 1872_WiganRLFC, exiled Warrior, Jukesays, Mark_P1973, NickyKiss, post, Warrior Winger and 288 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to Wigan Warriors


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
0m
Spare Tickets Friday
post
4
7m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
55970
8m
Challenge Cup
Uncle Rico
35
8m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
34256
23m
Smith - should he stay or should he go
Roam Ranger
346
29m
The official Leon Hayes Thread
Boss Hog
12
30m
The Good Friday Derby Massacre
Steve0
117
46m
No grade A for 2025 for Trinity
wrencat1873
20
Recent
Rd 6 I Cas A
Rockinhorse
21
Recent
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Catalans Home
Uncle Rico
11
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
43s
Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE
Zig
1933
45s
The Good Friday Derby Massacre
Steve0
117
58s
Other Championship Clubs
Trojan Horse
97
1m
Game - Song Titles
Boss Hog
34256
1m
Halifax H
Maccbull_Big
32
1m
Fevround 2
Wildthing
86
1m
No grade A for 2025 for Trinity
wrencat1873
20
1m
This weeks disciplinary
sir adrian m
1007
2m
Shopping list for 2025
Tarquin Fueg
405
2m
The Wigan Way - New Podcast - Chairman Special
Jukesays
1
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Dons v Swinton Lions 30 June 2024
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Squad for Sheffield
AdamH
1
TODAY
London Away
Fartown58
1
TODAY
The Bulls away
Brew
7
TODAY
The official Leon Hayes Thread
Boss Hog
12
TODAY
Saints a
Cherry_Warri
13
TODAY
Leon Ruan signs on loan
Jemmo
2
TODAY
Wardle
Jo Jumbuck
3
TODAY
Huddersfield - Home
BigTime
5
TODAY
Max Wood on loan to Bradford 2 weeks
rubber ducki
7
TODAY
Jake Wardle 5 Year deal
Zig
22
TODAY
No grade A for 2025 for Trinity
wrencat1873
20
TODAY
Cup Quarter Final TV Arrangements
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Rd 6 I Cas A
Rockinhorse
21
TODAY
WIRE YED Prediction Competition Catalans Home
Uncle Rico
11
TODAY
Spare Tickets Friday
post
4
TODAY
RL Podcast
AgbriggAmble
1
TODAY
Challenge Cup
Uncle Rico
35
TODAY
2024 Challenge Cup Quarter Final Draw
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Cup Quarter Final TV Arrangeme..
475
2024 Challenge Cup Quarter Fin..
588
Easy Does It For The Dragons A..
524
Warrington Demolish London For..
642
Leigh Leopards Beat Plucky Fea..
692
Saints Triumph Over Disappoint..
663
Easy Win for the Wolves Over L..
914
Dragons Condemn Castleford To ..
894
Leigh Leopards Secure First Po..
1043
St Helens Tame The Rhinos To W..
1011
Wigan Warriors Come From Behin..
1068
Betfred Championship and Leagu..
1057
2024 Challenge Cup Sixth Round..
3830
Featherstone Win Extra Time Cu..
1178
Dragons Triumph Over Hull FC t..
1059
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Table 'boards.stats_fixtures' doesn't exist