Re: The Prop Problem : Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:05 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Not being picky here, but he was dropped, and so was Clarke (only came back in when Powell dropped out).
Notnthat I think he should play, because I am constantly underwhelmed by his attitude and contribution
I'm going to also slightly disagree with jonh because I haven't seen an upturn in form, just the same old same old.

2 sides to the issue

I don't think either are inspired by our coach, and bullock certainly has from his perspective gripes about game time/promises about how and when game time will be given

On the other hand, I watched the young lads warm up on the sideline at Waley and in layman's terms Bullock looked like he could be arsed. And I also know he has had issue with time keeping etc, certainly in his early days at Wigan so I guess he is that kind of laid back style player.


Clarke, I know less about, but again he must ne frustrated at the apparent stance of pick anyone other than him. He played early season after being ignored for 4/5 games, did absolutely fine and was dropped next 3/4 games and sent on loan.
Came back in against wakey and did fine (lack of fitness an issue? Not surprising with no game time) and did ok imo, next 2 games dropped
Played ok against hudds and got a try, and was going to be dropped against Hudds in return match.

Clark did not do OK against Wakefield - he was on the field for 15 minutes and dropped the ball 3 times. How do you pick him in the next game after that? He came in again against Huddersfield through necessity and has made a decent impact so now deserves to stay in.

Re: The Prop Problem : Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:47 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

Clark did not do OK against Wakefield - he was on the field for 15 minutes and dropped the ball 3 times. How do you pick him in the next game after that? He came in again against Huddersfield through necessity and has made a decent impact so now deserves to stay in.

Well - Having been at the game I can say I saw him drop it once which was his 3rd/4th drive in and he dropped it trying to PTB
SL Stats site says he made 2 - So I may have missed one, but I didn't "make one up"
I think your being generous saying he played 15mins - I think it was more like 11/12

Now if he did then fine, not going to argue - But if that's the only thing your going to pick out from the whole post that's up to you.

He was 100% dropped against Hudds (a) until a late recall, and so was Bullock
So if he deserved to stay in after his performance at home, given we were missing a host of players and he dropped Bullock, Why wasn't he picked originally (Cue well he played and how do I know he wasn't - I can't prove it, but I know I'm right)

Anyway - as long as dropping them both gets BFUT/10Min Tony/Sin Bin a game then I suppose that's ok

Re: The Prop Problem : Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:26 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Well - Having been at the game I can say I saw him drop it once which was his 3rd/4th drive in and he dropped it trying to PTB
SL Stats site says he made 2 - So I may have missed one, but I didn't "make one up"
I think your being generous saying he played 15mins - I think it was more like 11/12

Now if he did then fine, not going to argue - But if that's the only thing your going to pick out from the whole post that's up to you.

He was 100% dropped against Hudds (a) until a late recall, and so was Bullock
So if he deserved to stay in after his performance at home, given we were missing a host of players and he dropped Bullock, Why wasn't he picked originally (Cue well he played and how do I know he wasn't - I can't prove it, but I know I'm right)

Anyway - as long as dropping them both gets BFUT/10Min Tony/Sin Bin a game then I suppose that's ok

In terms of Clark's errors against Wakefield, I watched on Our League and he clearly knocked on a third time in addition to the two that were given by the ref (it was an embarrassing miss by the officials actually) - I'm sure others who watched it would corroborate. Would have been difficult to pick up at the ground.

The official line was that Bullock didn't play because of Covid symptoms but maybe you know differently. Would I have picked Clubb over Clark? Probably not considering Clark had done well the previous week but not convinced it would make much difference to our overall performance.

Re: The Prop Problem : Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:55 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

In terms of Clark's errors against Wakefield, I watched on Our League and he clearly knocked on a third time in addition to the two that were given by the ref (it was an embarrassing miss by the officials actually) - I'm sure others who watched it would corroborate. Would have been difficult to pick up at the ground.

The official line was that Bullock didn't play because of Covid symptoms but maybe you know differently. Would I have picked Clubb over Clark? Probably not considering Clark had done well the previous week but not convinced it would make much difference to our overall performance.

Strange if it was Covid symptoms that he wasn't isolating? My son and girlfriend who live with us have it (She had symptoms, Tuesday and got results back Wednesday Positive so son did same even though no symptoms) - Everyone in our house is isolating and missed the game away Thursday even though I had tickets and all the remainder of us tested negative.

Anyway - I know I'm right (Same source that told me 2 days before Wakey away game that Gildart wasn't playing - So I know Lam was talking BS when he said he was a late withdrawal).
And I know Clark wasn't playing until Powell dropped out

And the strange thing is, it may sound like I'm defending both of them etc. - I'm not
Bullock, completely underwhelmed by the lack of Fight in him, He's gone, so what (Wish I knew how to put that GIF up of Alan Partridge not getting another series).
Clark - Meh - Again not really that fussed, average (ish) but in some ways if he's not getting time, despite being promised time by our coach then were not going to see the best of him (If there is one)
Bullock has said numerous times (Ok I'm hearing it 2nd hand) that he was told he was going to come on at "X" and get 15mins then return at "Y" and get another 15mins - Only then to sit on his backside until the 65th minute and get 10mins
And not just once, numerous times

Do I think Bullock needs to do more, train harder, fight harder etc. - Yes
Do I think Lam needs to learn how to manage players t get the best out of them more - Yes

Same for Clark
Same for lots of our players

As for Clubb over Clark, or over Bullock, or anyone else for that matter - Well if averaging 4 carries a game for 40mtrs, averaging 20mins a game (If were lucky) and 15 tackles of which 80% are 3rd man in Belly flops tickles Lam's fancy then fine

I made my mind up a long time ago and nothing I've seen about the performances, style of play, player development etc. makes me think I was wrong.
Team selection in certain areas, tings I hear about behind the scenes doesn't give ma nay confidence
Lam is an average coach, and average developer of systems/processes that bring players through etc.
I really do think there is 20% more in most of our players that he can't get out of them one way or the other.

Re: The Prop Problem : Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:19 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

tings I hear about behind the scenes doesn't give ma nay confidence

Is it just me, or did anyone else read that in a Jamaican accent?

Re: The Prop Problem : Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:28 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Strange if it was Covid symptoms that he wasn't isolating? My son and girlfriend who live with us have it (She had symptoms, Tuesday and got results back Wednesday Positive so son did same even though no symptoms) - Everyone in our house is isolating and missed the game away Thursday even though I had tickets and all the remainder of us tested negative.

Anyway - I know I'm right (Same source that told me 2 days before Wakey away game that Gildart wasn't playing - So I know Lam was talking BS when he said he was a late withdrawal).
And I know Clark wasn't playing until Powell dropped out

And the strange thing is, it may sound like I'm defending both of them etc. - I'm not
Bullock, completely underwhelmed by the lack of Fight in him, He's gone, so what (Wish I knew how to put that GIF up of Alan Partridge not getting another series).
Clark - Meh - Again not really that fussed, average (ish) but in some ways if he's not getting time, despite being promised time by our coach then were not going to see the best of him (If there is one)
Bullock has said numerous times (Ok I'm hearing it 2nd hand) that he was told he was going to come on at "X" and get 15mins then return at "Y" and get another 15mins - Only then to sit on his backside until the 65th minute and get 10mins
And not just once, numerous times

Do I think Bullock needs to do more, train harder, fight harder etc. - Yes
Do I think Lam needs to learn how to manage players t get the best out of them more - Yes

Same for Clark
Same for lots of our players

As for Clubb over Clark, or over Bullock, or anyone else for that matter - Well if averaging 4 carries a game for 40mtrs, averaging 20mins a game (If were lucky) and 15 tackles of which 80% are 3rd man in Belly flops tickles Lam's fancy then fine

I made my mind up a long time ago and nothing I've seen about the performances, style of play, player development etc. makes me think I was wrong.
Team selection in certain areas, tings I hear about behind the scenes doesn't give ma nay confidence
Lam is an average coach, and average developer of systems/processes that bring players through etc.
I really do think there is 20% more in most of our players that he can't get out of them one way or the other.

Sure Bullock would have got tested and if negative then he's OK to continue. But no reason to doubt what you say about him being dropped because ultimately Lam doesn't trust him (or Clark) - you can see that in the game time that he gives him. And people can say what they like about Lam but I can completely understand where he's coming from. Clark unreliable with errors and poor discipline and Bullock has a tendency to frankly be a bit soft in both attack and defence (remember Satae running straight through him in the QF after being on the pitch for all of 5 minutes?).

Re: The Prop Problem : Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:43 pm  

I split the difference on Bullock between him and Lam. There’s no doubt in my mind that Lam should’ve got more out of him, like he should’ve done with almost every single player in the squad but Bullock just looks so laid back and non fussed about pushing himself. There’s always been these rumours about poor time keeping and unprofessionalism and a part of me thinks ‘Wane would’ve got more from him’ but the over riding feeling is Wane probably would’ve bombed him out of the club before now.

I doubt we’ll really know if he’s got it in him to be as good as his natural attributes warrant until a good few months in to his Wire career. He’ll have a good start I’d imagine but we’ll then see if he’s got the desire to keep it going.

Re: The Prop Problem : Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:24 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

Clark did not do OK against Wakefield - he was on the field for 15 minutes and dropped the ball 3 times. How do you pick him in the next game after that? He came in again against Huddersfield through necessity and has made a decent impact so now deserves to stay in.

Bateman should have been dropped after game one as he knocked on 3 or 4 times in that game and gave away numerous penalties also

Re: The Prop Problem : Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:06 pm  

Pieman wrote:

Bateman should have been dropped after game one as he knocked on 3 or 4 times in that game and gave away numerous penalties also

Is anyone saying Bateman did OK that day?

Re: The Prop Problem : Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:06 am  

Grimmy wrote:

Is anyone saying Bateman did OK that day?

no, but was anyone saying he should be dropped like they are with Clark?