Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:14 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

True but what I'm (perhaps poorly) trying to show is he got some real talent coming through that I don't think Lam has benefited from. A lot of the guys on that Wane list were ready to be regular starters as soon as the debuted, and were some of the best in Super League in a short time. That's not really true for any of those I've picked out for Lam. If you combine those two lists I'd say the top 7 players all came through under Wane

It’s tough to compare.

I’m not saying you are wrong by the way but either by poor external business or lack of planning today’s young guns are coming into a team lacking support in key positions.

That tended not to happen in the past.

Some of those lads that came through in years gone by and looked outstanding I would think would struggle coming into the current team with a lack of platform.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:34 pm  

jonh wrote:

It’s tough to compare.

I’m not saying you are wrong by the way but either by poor external business or lack of planning today’s young guns are coming into a team lacking support in key positions.

That tended not to happen in the past.

Some of those lads that came through in years gone by and looked outstanding I would think would struggle coming into the current team with a lack of platform.

This!

I think the issue with the youngsters coming through at present and why we cannot directly compare with Wane's are:
- Impact of Covid to no academy games
- Over realiance on youngsters (especially forwards who mature at older age)
- The team isn't as good as under Wane
- Lam isn't as good a coach as Wane

Our issue is youngsters in the backline. We don't seem to have wingers & centres chomping at the bit to make a stab in the first team. In terms of forwards we are spoilt for choice. Havard has all the right attributes and numbers, KPP has really hit the ground running and is still so young and experienced and Brad O Neil has really impressed me for an 18 year old. When you add Smithies, Partington, Shorrocks to that, I think we should be impressed.

I just hope they don't burn out, get over played, lose confidence etc because its all about finding a balance of integrating these players into the team. At the moment Lam doesn't have a choice but to play them.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:49 pm  

nathan_rugby wrote:

This!

I think the issue with the youngsters coming through at present and why we cannot directly compare with Wane's are:
- Impact of Covid to no academy games
- Over realiance on youngsters (especially forwards who mature at older age)
- The team isn't as good as under Wane
- Lam isn't as good a coach as Wane

Our issue is youngsters in the backline. We don't seem to have wingers & centres chomping at the bit to make a stab in the first team. In terms of forwards we are spoilt for choice. Havard has all the right attributes and numbers, KPP has really hit the ground running and is still so young and experienced and Brad O Neil has really impressed me for an 18 year old. When you add Smithies, Partington, Shorrocks to that, I think we should be impressed.

I just hope they don't burn out, get over played, lose confidence etc because its all about finding a balance of integrating these players into the team. At the moment Lam doesn't have a choice but to play them.

I think your point about backs Vs forwards is a fair call to make.

KPP & Havard are two of the best young forwards I've seen come through the system. I'm actually struggling to think of two young lads who've hit the ground running as well as they have.

Whilst we don't have outside backs chomping at the bit, I'd argue the club have messed things up a little. Burgess, imo, was always a good player who got plenty of undue stick. The club should have signed him up to a long term deal and then we'd have Burgess, Marshall and Bibby - that's more than enough and all three would have got plenty of game time.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:50 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

I think your point about backs Vs forwards is a fair call to make.

KPP & Havard are two of the best young forwards I've seen come through the system. I'm actually struggling to think of two young lads who hit the ground running as well as they have.

Whilst we don't have outside backs chomping at the bit, I'd argue the club have messed things up a little. Burgess, imo, was always a good player who got plenty of undue stick. He club should have signed him up to a long term deal and then we'd have Burgess, Marshall and Bibby - that's more than enough and all three would have got plenty of game time.

Or Davies.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:54 pm  

Too much too soon being asked of the young forwards. I look at Ollie Partington and still see a kid but we’re having to treat him like he’s a seasoned veteran and that’s because behind him we’ve got Havard, Byrne, Smithies, Pearce-Paul, Shorrocks, O’Neil etc. All of them should be getting dipped in and out but they play week after week after week (when fit) and that’s because there’s not only a lack of experienced depth but also a lack of quality in the experienced front rowers we do have. If we look back at guys like Lee Mossop and Liam Farrell coming through in 2010, they had Coley, Fielden, Feka (not perfect but served a purpose) and Lockers in the centre of the field. It’s chalk and cheese to having Singleton and Tony Clubb and not much else around the middle. It has a knock on effect on all the young forwards, regardless of them being props or backrowers because they’re being asked to pick up the slack.

That sounds like a defence of Lam but he’s culpable IMO of throwing all these juniors in together when he doesn’t have to. He’s refused to pick Clark and Bullock at points, when even if their form had been poor, it still would’ve given the juniors a week out of the fire. A defence some people will use with Lam in terms of how successful his time here has been, is that he’s given loads of debuts out to young players but the way in which he’s flogged some of them may have done Irreparable damage to their careers IMO. Wane rarely had top class prop forwards but what he could manage was to get a tune out of the ones he did have. He won Grand Finals with guys like Dudson (the overweight version), Crosby, Navarette and Tautai, who are hardly a whose who of prop forwards. It’s that failure of Lam to get more from guys like Clark and Bullock (and even Flower before them) that has hurt us more than anything.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:16 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Too much too soon being asked of the young forwards. I look at Ollie Partington and still see a kid but we’re having to treat him like he’s a seasoned veteran and that’s because behind him we’ve got Havard, Byrne, Smithies, Pearce-Paul, Shorrocks, O’Neil etc. All of them should be getting dipped in and out but they play week after week after week (when fit) and that’s because there’s not only a lack of experienced depth but also a lack of quality in the experienced front rowers we do have. If we look back at guys like Lee Mossop and Liam Farrell coming through in 2010, they had Coley, Fielden, Feka (not perfect but served a purpose) and Lockers in the centre of the field. It’s chalk and cheese to having Singleton and Tony Clubb and not much else around the middle. It has a knock on effect on all the young forwards, regardless of them being props or backrowers because they’re being asked to pick up the slack.

That sounds like a defence of Lam but he’s culpable IMO of throwing all these juniors in together when he doesn’t have to. He’s refused to pick Clark and Bullock at points, when even if their form had been poor, it still would’ve given the juniors a week out of the fire. A defence some people will use with Lam in terms of how successful his time here has been, is that he’s given loads of debuts out to young players but the way in which he’s flogged some of them may have done Irreparable damage to their careers IMO. Wane rarely had top class prop forwards but what he could manage was to get a tune out of the ones he did have. He won Grand Finals with guys like Dudson (the overweight version), Crosby, Navarette and Tautai, who are hardly a whose who of prop forwards. It’s that failure of Lam to get more from guys like Clark and Bullock (and even Flower before them) that has hurt us more than anything.

Spot on. Fantastic post.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:53 pm  

Leeds close to signing Blake Austin for 2022, so they’ll have Sezer, Austin and Gale. The report says it has no bearing on the future of Gale but it seems strange to carry 3 out and out senior halfbacks.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:22 pm  

Leeds won't say anything detrimental to Gale as they want him to hit form for the season's end.
After his mess up earlier in the week and losing the captaincy then it's unlikely he'll be at Leeds next year.
Gale will be on good money, Seizer and Austin will probably be on better money so Uncle Gary won't like spending all that so one will leave.
That has to be Gale.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:51 pm  

Father Ted wrote:

Leeds won't say anything detrimental to Gale as they want him to hit form for the season's end.
After his mess up earlier in the week and losing the captaincy then it's unlikely he'll be at Leeds next year.
Gale will be on good money, Seizer and Austin will probably be on better money so Uncle Gary won't like spending all that so one will leave.
That has to be Gale.

I’d be very surprised if he doesn’t end up back at Cas.

Re: Rumours and signings v9 : Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:56 pm  

The talk was he’ll stay at Leeds but we’ll see. Cas would need to move one on to fit him in you’d imagine. He could be a Deacon style pick up for us. I just hope we have the halfback situation in hand, as there seems to be a merry go round going on at the minute and we’re not on it.